Legacy Of The Beast Post-Pandemic Leg

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LooseCannon

Enterprise-class aircraft carrier
Staff member
Disagree. I can picture a crowd singing the Senjutsu chorus but when I saw them on TBOS tour there was total silence during IESF.
I saw...six (six? Vegas, Montreal, London, London, Chicago, Toronto, yeah six) six different shows on this tour in three countries and the only time the crowd wasn't into IESF was Toronto, which was definitely the most boomer audience of them all. Montreal was fucking hot for the band, but that is because it's the best metal city in Canada and the USA. London was good both nights. Chicago was good, Vegas was good.
 

dmort93

Educated Fool
I saw...six (six? Vegas, Montreal, London, London, Chicago, Toronto, yeah six) six different shows on this tour in three countries and the only time the crowd wasn't into IESF was Toronto, which was definitely the most boomer audience of them all. Montreal was fucking hot for the band, but that is because it's the best metal city in Canada and the USA. London was good both nights. Chicago was good, Vegas was good.
I travelled to Canada from the UK in 2019 to see Maiden, and the Toronto show (second night) was probably the best I've ever seen them! The Budweiser centre is a great venue.
 

Spaldy

Ancient Mariner
Since no-one here has seen Maiden play Senjutsu live you've really got no idea how it will be accepted outside of your own speculation. You also don't know how they will perform it. Maiden usually up the tempo of their slower work live (see SOTC or TFF) and I reckon we'll have Bruce working the crowd during the instrumental sections.

The way you're all describing it makes Senjutsu sound like a Leonard Cohen song ffs. The song rips. Those thunderous drums and Adrian's epic riffs and Bruce's soaring vocals on the chorus. It's possibly the best song on the album and I'm astonished that folk find it boring. Have attention spans dropped suddenly?
 

Niall Kielt

Ancient Mariner
I'd say that If Eternity Should Fail has a much more audience-friendly chorus than Senjutsu (plus a fast instrumental bridge).
Another benefit IESF has is that its actually a good song.
Have attention spans dropped suddenly?
Not mine but I still dont like it as a song, not one bit, no sir. And I say this as a Leonard Cohen fan.

Heres what I think. They will do the 3 Senjustu songs. Walk on eddie and whatnot. They will not do a full proper album tour. Because they know Senjustu is a bit rubbish and it will be 3 or more years old before they can tour it. They will have moved on emotionally. They will probably do a new album at some point between now and the end of the LOTB tour and then just tour that in 2023 or whenever.
 

GhostofCain

Ancient Mariner
The way you're all describing it makes Senjutsu sound like a Leonard Cohen song ffs. The song rips. Those thunderous drums and Adrian's epic riffs and Bruce's soaring vocals on the chorus. It's possibly the best song on the album and I'm astonished that folk find it boring. Have attention spans dropped suddenly?

It has nothing to do with attention spans dropping. I quite like the song but I do not think it will be a great one to open the set with.

On a related note, Leonard Cohen was fantastic.
 

Spaldy

Ancient Mariner
They will not do a full proper album tour. Because they know Senjustu is a bit rubbish and it will be 3 or more years old before they can tour it. They will have moved on emotionally. They will probably do a new album at some point between now and the end of the LOTB tour and then just tour that in 2023 or whenever.
Laughable.

Maiden have never not done an album tour and won't start now just to please a minority of "fans" who don't like the album.
 
D

Deleted member 7164

Guest
Sign of the Cross is an absolute mammoth of a track, and some historical things taken into account, it also serves well as an album opener. But even Maiden wasn't mad enough to open shows with it. It was also noted by even harshest critics as a great Iron Maiden song and only one of the few "worth" from that album. Senjutsu the track did not/does not get the praise SoTC got and still gets. SoTC also has a climax with fast tempos. So on and so forth.

Just saying "the boys will make it work live" doesn't mean much to me (and the discussion).
Keep in mind that it doesn't matter if they start it 5% faster or 20% faster. The tempo track is pretty still. If they can't spice it up with pace changes then they might try with rhythm guitar arrangements. It would certainly be magnificent if Smith brought out a detuned guitar, regardless of it they can't rely on PA being set up correctly for the opening track - historically proven btw. Which throws the 'guitar orchestration' idea out of the window.

Like I said, love this track, very curious to hear it live, but absolutely zero thoughts about it being the optimal opener. There is another scenario I can think of. Senjutsu/Stratego opens the show, but Senjutsu is played with a dimmed stage and heavy VFX. No orchestral intro after Doctor Doctor would help the feel. So Senjutsu serves as live played intro, Stratego kicks in with full lights.
 

Spaldy

Ancient Mariner
It has nothing to do with attention spans dropping. I quite like the song but I do not think it will be a great one to open the set with.

On a related note, Leonard Cohen was fantastic.
I'm a Leonard Cohen fan but the point I'm making is that his stuff is hardly exciting isn't it?
 

Spaldy

Ancient Mariner
I remember the two first Slayer gigs I attented in the early 90s. The first one opened with Rain in Blood. A massive bang, everyone going nuts. The second one opened with Hell Awaits: a fantastic heavy song, but way too slow to make one explode with enthusiasm. And those moments have a big input on how you live the whole gig.
Hell Awaits is slow?! Eh?

Have you not heard Decade of Aggression?

I saw Slayer supporting Maiden in 2000 and they opened with Mandatory Suicide (muuuuch slower than Hell Awaits) and they were still phenomenal. Blasted straight into War Ensemble afterwards and let rip. Great show.
 

chaosapiant

Ancient Marinade
I sometimes have problems understanding opinions on the forum. Not the difference, but where are they coming from. Senjutsu has an anti-verse between 4:15 and 5:15 (1 minute!) that's actual complete drop in dynamics and pace compared to any section preceding it. If you think that entire arena is going to sing this slow, anthemic-anemic part just 5 minutes into the show. This part is the slowest main part (not counting acoustic intros and alikes) Maiden does in its entire show. This part has slower pacing than Blood Brothers which is a mid set ballad.

But the biggest problem I have with it as opening/fierce track is its reliance to the meter. Simply kicking up a notch somewhere won't work as seamlessly as it works in Wicker Man, Aces High, TNOTB or even short non openers like Trooper.

It can open the show, but it will be more proggy type of opening, more of a visual effects/atmosphere type of a track than a straight out boom like Aces High, Wicker Man, or any of the other typical openers.

I don't want anybody thinking anything bad, but if you're kind of a fan that gets same type of energy and internal drive out of Aces High and Senjutsu, you're not appropriate for the metric. It's like having a "this is great" reaction to any meal served in front of you. Nothing against that, I certainly appreciate that you enjoy everything put in front of you, but most people don't.

Also keep in mind that average maidenfans.com concert goer will be in the fan sections or around fans. Elsewhere is different - I zoomed around one of the shows because I had several bunches of friends on different spots. Different parts of arena reacted differently to the TBOS material.

You will definitely see a "reaction" once first few minutes of Senjutsu pass and the novelty of show opening boom and that drum groove wears off on the general audience that doesn't know the song or the lyrics. Apart from the sporadic solo, there's nothing further in the track to hook them. If you think that 5 minutes in, half of arena is going to sing that slow part with hands in the air you're extremely fan-biased.
I don't think a single person, myself included, has stated that Senjutsu would open the show with the same kind of "boom" as say Aces High. It's like we keep moving the goalposts. The song is good (imo) and more than good enough for a concert opener. Additionally, Bruce himself, who I'd assume would be a better authority on what would and wouldn't work in a live context believes it to be a strong opener. And that's all anyone is saying: that it'll be a strong opener. It's not going to replace the classics, it's going to be its own thing and will likely work within that paradigm.
 

srfc

Ancient Mariner
I'm not sure why this is an issue now? We've all seen the tour (I presume, there's been two legs so far...), if anything we should be getting excited about the 3 changing tracks.

I guess it's the nature of the internet that people can whip themselves up to be disappointed by something that hasn't even happened yet, I kinda wish Bruce had kept his mouth shut.
 

chaosapiant

Ancient Marinade
One thing about this forum that is hilarious and awesome to me, is that we as a group of people nitpick the tiniest things in regards to Maiden. Most of us know the catalog so well, we read the interviews and reviews and we analyze literally every second of an album when we listen to it. Sometimes I have to take as step back and realize that no, it's not normal to know the year every album was released or who played on it or who did the art work or who played which solos or how a song came to be written or etc etc etc. I imagine a fairly high percentage of us have read the official Bruce and Maiden biographies and then some. Sometimes I have to sort of try and see the forest from the trees and realize that very few people care as much as I do about these details. And that's fine. If anyone can whip themselves into a fervor about every little thing Maiden does, it'll be us. Because it matters to most if not all of us.
 

Trevoire

Ancient Mariner
Don't get me wrong, Senjutsu as a song is fine, I enjoyed hearing Maiden do something genuinely different, and I can see the idea that the whole drum intro thing would make it a good opener. But it's just too slow, too low energy, and too long! At 4 minutes in you've basically heard all the song has to offer, but it keeps plodding on repeating itself for another 4 minutes. (note I am definitely NOT part of the "all their songs since BNW are too long" crew. I LOVE the long songs!)

WOTW and Stratego would both work great at the start of the gig, in either order. But Senjutsu imo just won't.
 

Niall Kielt

Ancient Mariner
Laughable.

Maiden have never not done an album tour and won't start now just to please a minority of "fans" who don't like the album.
I didnt say it was to please fans. Its just a thought I have, I wouldn't bet on it and it could well turn out to be as wrong as most speculation on this forum.

I would totally get it if they felt detached from the material considering the gap between recording and any potential tour start date (surely 2023) and considering that Bruce Bruce said they were ready to do another album before they even released Senjustu (assuming that he was saying true things). Its not beyond the realms of possibility. Im not a fan of the album (yet) but I would still happily pay to see them play it in full. Because I'm a 'fan,' as you put it.

You say Maiden have never not done an album tour. Thats a fact. You say they wont start now. Thats speculation. They also have never started an album tour 3 years after an album was made. Maiden regularly do things they have never done before.

And Im glad you got a laugh from my post, its my modus operandi.
 

GhostofCain

Ancient Mariner
Don't get me wrong, Senjutsu as a song is fine, I enjoyed hearing Maiden do something genuinely different, and I can see the idea that the whole drum intro thing would make it a good opener. But it's just too slow, too low energy, and too long! At 4 minutes in you've basically heard all the song has to offer, but it keeps plodding on repeating itself for another 4 minutes.

It makes you wish Maiden focused on blitzkrieg battles rather than long ones! :lol:
 
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Ironalice

Ancient Mariner
I didnt say it was to please fans. Its just a thought I have, I wouldn't bet on it and it could well turn out to be as wrong as most speculation on this forum.

I would totally get it if they felt detached from the material considering the gap between recording and any potential tour start date (surely 2023) and considering that Bruce Bruce said they were ready to do another album before they even released Senjustu (assuming that he was saying true things). Its not beyond the realms of possibility. Im not a fan of the album (yet) but I would still happily pay to see them play it in full. Because I'm a 'fan,' as you put it.

You say Maiden have never not done an album tour. Thats a fact. You say they wont start now. Thats speculation. They also have never started an album tour 3 years after an album was made. Maiden regularly do things they have never done before.

And Im glad you got a laugh from my post, its my modus operandi.
There is every indication they are doing some sort of senjutsu tour next year. In fact Bruce this week still confirmed playing it in full is still the plan.

Adrian recenly also said they are putting together ideas for the stage set and expects that to go into pre production at some stage this year.

You also have Nicko talking about the songs from the album he wants to play the most (one of them being the parchment)

So unless they do a complete 360 its happening in 2023.

It won't be a 2 year album style tour, most of the general public won't care for such a show to take place so long after the albums release but the band know that which is why they are looking at "smaller venues"

I would say its going to be a brief tour with select cities in europe, UK, North/ South America around 50-60 shows and done.
 
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