Joined a band but they dont know any theory

Babo 91

Nomad
I recently joined a metal band as a bass player as they have already got 2 guitarists but they never seem to play in a particular key which means sometimes it sounds good but it can also sound really bad and they sometimes have problems with deciding what chords or bass should be played. they do a lot of riffs like this.

E|------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
B|------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
G|------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
D|--0--0--2--0--0--3--0--0--5--0--0--2--0--0--5--0--0--6--0--0--8--0--0--10--0--0--8--0--0--8--0--0--9--0--0--10
A|------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
E|------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

sometimes it works and sometimes it doesnt. I dont know whether to tell them that they should try playing in key or just go along with the flow. it would make my bass playing easier if it was in key. i think a lot of newer metal bands play like this though. can someone give me some advice please
 
Play what sounds good, doesn't matter it it's any key or something.
Listen to some Avant-garde metal, it sounds really chromatic.
 
Or listen to some of Jon Lord's Hammond solos. That being said, I believe Lord has a clue about music theory.

If one has absolutely no clue about keys and scales, one will inevitably come up with stuff that sounds bad from time to time- At least learning theory makes it easier to know what they're doing.
 
@Babo91: being less dependent on theory helps as well.

A few options (more than one possible, of course):

- You adapt to their music, if you can (without necessarily being over obsessively busy with theory).
- They allow to change (some parts of) their music for you (you can help them with that and build in parts you think might fit)
- You start writing new music for them. They might adapt easier to you than you to them. Perhaps one of them has a good ear (which often happens with people who are not that busy with theory).
- Create something new together. This can happen spontanuously.

At least: communicate. :)
 
i think if you slap on enough distortion ANYTHING will sound good but the problem is because its not in key it becomes very hard to harmonize the 2 guitars and come up with a solid bass line.

i think i will try writing material for them but i guess it comes down to our influences. im influenced by maiden, satriani, malmsteen, paul gilbert, priest, sabbath and eric johnson. they are influenced by bands like slipknot and korn.
 
I see. Who knows they'll agree with some more melodic chord passages.
If not, then it's up to you if you still like it.

Hope it will be better at the next session.  :ok:
 
Babo, you NEED to know theory inside and out. That might not be true for all bassists, but consider your situation...

You're the bass. YOU are the guy who chooses the key. Any listener will hear it that way; it's the way we're all conditioned to hear music. If you can figure out what notes the guitars are playing, it's up to YOU to choose a bassline which makes it sound in key.

Here's an idea to get started: when they start playing against a pedal tone like that, try a bass note that implies a different chord against that pedal...
If they're pedaling on D like in your post, you can play on G (where D is the 5th of a G chord) or on B-flat (D is the major third, this is the metal choice) or on B (D is the minor third).
Or change between those and other bass notes. Just like Steve Harris plays E-C-D-E over repeating guitar riffs.

It's not that traditional music theory is so special by itself. What matters is that it's a system which everyone can learn and use, to get a certain type of sound. Now you could also work with your guitarists to develop your own atonal system - but you need a defined system or it will always sound like horrible chaos. The advantage of standard theory is that it opens up thousands of songs and centuries of knowledge for you. Know the rules before you break them and all that.
 
Babo 91 said:
i think if you slap on enough distortion ANYTHING will sound good but the problem is because its not in key it becomes very hard to harmonize the 2 guitars and come up with a solid bass line.
this is a very common misconception. You can make distortion sound bad. Go play G and G# as a  chord and tell me how that works out. Distortion makes it sound worse IMO.
 
I recommend experimentation (which is something lost in music, since a long time) over these clichéd riffs the guitarrists do; keep on experimenting, changing tones, intervals, tempos and things will start to fall into place, unoticed. And what SMX says is spot on - great bands have a great 'cuisine', in other words, great bassist and great drummer. All the bands that I love are no exception to this rule. I'm a guitarrist, but I'm very concerned and focused on what the bassist and the drummer will add to the ideas.
 
I don't think you can do much with your theory if they don't know a f**k about it. :) And when they are not open for your songwriting it will be really hard. If you would ask what they play they'd go "huh, no clue".
 
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