Re: Heaven and Hell
From:
http://classicrockrevisited.com/Interviews07/geezerbutler07.htm
Return to Heaven and Hell
An Interview with Black Sabbath Bass Player Geezer Butler
by Jeb Wright, February 2007
In 1979, the world of Heavy Metal was shook on it’s ear with the news that Ozzy Osbourne had been ousted by his own band members. It seemed Black Sabbath would be no more. However, brewing behind the scenes was a melding of Metal legends never before seen. From the mist left over from the Sabbath break up came legendary Rainbow vocalist Ronnie James Dio. Fans dubbed the union Black Rainbow and the sound the musicians made lived up to the moniker.
Heaven and Hell was released in May of 1980 and as soon as the title track was played on the radio legions of Sabbath fans flocked to the record store to buy the album. This lineup lasted only one album as Bill Ward exited mid-tour due to substance abuse issues and guilt over playing in Sabbath without Ozzy. Vinnie Appice replaced Ward and the band released Mob Rules and a live album before breaking up. The break up was rumored to have come about due to a clash of egos between Iommi and Dio. During the mixing of the live album, Live Evil, legend holds Dio would sneak into the control room to remix the album and raise the volume level of his vocals. Whether truth or legend, the fact is that personalities proved to be destructive and the band went their separate ways. Dio and Appice went on to find success in DIO while Sabbath floundered for several albums and line up changes. In the 90's Dio returned to the fold and the album Dehumanizer was released. This line up did not last either as the ego clash between Tony Iommi and Ronnie James proved to, once again, take precedence over the music they created. Ronnie returned to his solo career and Sabbath reunited with Ozzy.
In 2006, Ozzy admitted that he wanted to take a break from Sabbath and resume his solo career. Sabbath was officially on hold. Tony Iommi decided to go see his old band mate in concert and after the show the duo began talking. These talks led to reuniting with Geezer Butler, Ward and Iommi for a few tracks for an upcoming ‘best of’ album. Before the project even got off the ground, Ward backed out and Vinnie Appice was, once again, called in as an emergency replacement.
In this interview Geezer Butler sets the record straight on why the band is using the name Heaven and Hell instead of Black Sabbath as well as discussing in detail both bands future plans.
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Jeb: I grew up a huge fan of a band you may have heard of – Black Sabbath. I also loved a band called Rainbow. When Dio joined Sabbath in 1980 that was huge news. Now to hear you are all back together again is just awesome. How did this all come about?
Geezer: It all started this time when Tony went to see Ronnie James Dio in Birmingham, England. He went backstage after the show and they started talking. They had not spoken for something like fourteen years. Ronnie went back to Tony’s house and they wrote some stuff and it just went from there.
Jeb: When did you first hear about this?
Geezer: I knew that Tony met Ronnie and that they had written two or three songs. We are going to be putting out the Anthology CD of the Dio years of Sabbath. Rhino asked us if we could come up with some new stuff to put on it. Ronnie and Tony wrote three new songs. Word got out about it and we started getting tour offers. We started putting a tour together to go with the album release. I went over to England and put the bass down on it and that was that. The album will come out in March.
Jeb: Are there future plans yet or are you going to see how the tour goes?
Geezer: It is just a year long thing. Because of things that happened in the past we don’t want to press our luck. Everyone is happy with a year long tour.
Jeb: Bill Ward was going to be involved.
Geezer: Bill was involved originally. Bill was in the studio when I went over there but he didn’t want to tour so he didn’t go any further with it.
Jeb: I emailed drummer Vinnie Appice when I heard that Ward was with the band and I said, "Are you ready to go?" I was just joking. About a week later he emailed me that he was going over to England to record with Heaven and Hell.
Geezer: [much laughter] Vinnie did really well. He literally got one days notice. He got on the plane and came over and drummed on four tracks he had never heard before. He did a great job.
Jeb: You played together back in the 80's and the 90's and the band was called Black Sabbath. Now you are Heaven and Hell. Why is the name different this time around?
Geezer: Back then Sabbath was dead and buried, as far as Ozzy is concerned. The record company insisted on calling us Black Sabbath and we were contracted that way. I think Tony wanted to carry on with the name Black Sabbath anyway. Due to the restoration of the original Sabbath now, we couldn’t go out that way. We didn’t want to confuse everyone by going out this time as Black Sabbath with Ronnie and then next year going out as Sabbath with Ozzy. Both things are hopefully going to be ongoing.
Jeb: Sabbath is still alive?
Geezer: Yeah. With the original Black Sabbath line up that did the reunion, we have really only played North America and a few European places. We have always wanted to do a world tour.
Jeb: You have not visited the Dio era Sabbath material for some time. Has it been easy for you to revisit those songs?
Geezer: No, it has been really hard. For this tour we are doing strictly Dio era songs. Apart from "Neon Knights," "Heaven and Hell" and "Mob Rules" – which we have done live before – we have not done a lot of the others live. There are several songs we have never played live. We are playing a lot of stuff for the first time since we recorded it. It is hard to remember what you played on a lot of these songs.
Jeb: Now that you are relearning them, what do think of these songs?
Geezer: I think they are great. It is really surprising how good they are, musically.
Jeb: I think Sabbath has always had a huge sound with Ronnie. When you put out Heaven and Hell, you did not make people forget the Ozzy years but you shut the people up who said you could not go on without him.
Geezer: Absolutely. Looking back, I wish we would have changed the name back in 1980 because they really were two very different types of songs. I am really enjoying playing this stuff.
Jeb: Are you just putting the CD on and playing along with it trying to figure out your parts?
Geezer: Absolutely. The stuff that we have played a lot before is not a problem but there is a lot of stuff on Dehumanizer that we never played. I don’t even remember recording half of it. Those songs have a lot of tempo and time changes which make it quite hard to do them. For the last two weeks I have been going through all these songs at home. We are going to be getting together for two weeks of rehearsal soon. Everyone is doing their homework right now and then we will get together and bang it out.
Jeb: You will play no Ozzy era material at all?
Geezer: No, we are not doing any of that. The Ozzy thing is still ongoing so I think it is best to keep them totally separate.
Jeb: Were there any hard feelings from Ozzy when you guys wanted to do this?
Geezer: I think he got a bit upset at first when he thought we were going to go out as Black Sabbath. When I told him that we were not going to do that then he was fine with it.
Jeb: Do you think he will come out and see a show?
Geezer: I doubt it. He never goes out to see anyone [laughter].
Jeb: Ronnie is a leader of a band and Tony is the leader of a band. How are you going to handle having two top dogs?
Geezer: That is why we are doing this as a one-off thing. We will do ten months of touring and the CD. It was more difficult when it was an ongoing thing. It was hard to keep the two egos in check. This time everyone knows it is only for ten months. We are all looking forward to going out and playing the songs and then that is it.
Jeb: In 2007, how different is it being in a band compared to 1977?
Geezer: I think we all respect each other’s musicianship now. I don’t tell Tony what to play and we don’t tell Ronnie what to sing. We respect each other’s input, which gets rid of a lot of problems in a band. It really does avoid a lot of headaches. We also respect each other’s privacy and space. We are more mature in our outlook. We are looking at this as a ten-month project and that is it. Hopefully, we end up friends.
Jeb: So, I can assume that you are not going to let Ronnie mix the three new songs then.
Geezer: [laughter] I am staying well away from that one!
Jeb: You are using the Heaven and Hell album cover as your logo on your website. Do you remember where that picture came from?
Geezer: We had quite a few ideas for an album cover and that was the one that we all liked. I am not sure where that came from. It works very well for a band name. I can’t believe that nobody else has taken it.
Jeb: What songs are you looking forward to blasting out the most?
Geezer: I have always loved playing "Heaven and Hell." I like playing "Die Young," "Lonely is the Word" and "Children of the Sea." Like I said, we have not played a lot of these songs since we recorded them so it is going to be very interesting.
Jeb: Is there talk of a DVD?
Geezer: I think there is talk about a DVD. A couple of the shows will be shot on video.
Jeb: Have you rehearsed with Ronnie yet?
Geezer: No, not a full rehearsal.
Jeb: Have you heard his voice? It is just as strong as ever.
Geezer: That is what interested Tony so much when he went to see Ronnie live in Birmingham. Tony said he sounded brilliant. His voice sounded amazing on the new songs we recorded.
Jeb: There is something magical about Sabbath – no matter what era it is. When you all are on, it is amazing. Nobody sounds like Sabbath.
Geezer: I think that is the beauty of the whole thing. We have never put out an album for the sake of it or for the money. We only put albums out that we generally like. We don’t follow any trends and I think that is why the music still stands up. We have never been trendy.
Jeb: Why did Dio and Sabbath split up the first time? Was it alcohol and drug related?
Geezer: I had cleaned up by then as I had my first child. I never did drugs after I had my first child. It was just personalities. It was basically everybody was just not getting along. Bill left halfway through the Heaven and Hell tour – that didn’t help things. It went downhill from there.
Jeb: Sabbath went through some dark times in the 80's. You went between Sabbath and Ozzy’s band. It seemed you didn’t know where you fit in.
Geezer: Tony carried on the name but that is all it was. I really couldn’t relate to that Sabbath whatsoever. Ozzy and I have always been friends so I really just did all of the Ozzy stuff out of friendship. The reunion shows really brought it back together. I think we have stayed together this time because we are older and we still enjoy playing that music. I just take things one thing at a time. Usually when you make plans to do this or to do that then something happens and it all falls apart and you look like an idiot. It makes it easier.
Jeb: A lot of casual fans of Black Sabbath think that Ozzy wrote a lot of the lyrics. Does it bother you that you do not get the glory that is coming to you?
Geezer: The people who really know the band know that I wrote most of the lyrics. Plus, it is just one of those things that people think. I always expect that the singer in a band wrote all of the lyrics. It is unusual for another member of the band to write the lyrics of the songs. It is understandable that people think Ozzy wrote all the lyrics.
Jeb: Looking back with hindsight, how proud are you of the lyrics you wrote?
Geezer: Looking back now it is great because the music stands up and the lyrics stand up – unfortunately. All of the horrible things I wrote about then are still with us.
Jeb: Last one: Rumor has it that Megadeth is the opening band for the whole tour. Is that true?
Geezer: They will open for us for the Canadian dates but I think that is it. We are still deciding which way to go with the rest of the tour. Originally it was going to be Canada and then a one-off in New York and then we were going to head to South America and Japan. We might be going to Japan now, I am not sure. We are going to do as many dates as we can in ten months.
Jeb: And not all on the same tour bus. That has to be a relief.
Geezer: If we were all on the same bus then it would only be a two-month tour.
) to see them live and to hear new music!
