GREATEST METAL ALBUM CUP - Winner: Iron Maiden - Seventh Son of a Seventh Son!

Forostar said:
Hm. This attitude seems a weird one if you want to play this game. The point is to discover music presented by others. Showing disdain for other music comes across as stubborn silliness. Or silly stubborness, whichever you prefer. You cannot know the unknown in advance. Let us try not to be so sure or irritated in advance by the "shit" other people are presenting. Why wish to scream from the rooftops that your focus is limited to Maiden and irritated by anything else OTHER people present? Yuck! Other people! That must suck aye? Why not have a listen and see what happens. This game is very interesting. Challenging because people may get out of their comfort zone.
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The post was meant to be laced with irony, I find ridiculous OTT declarations and hyperbole very funny so posting in such a manner was something I thought would come across as a joke.

Obviously, I'm not going to be instantly dismissive of anyone suggestions, like the example I gave of VXI versus Master of Puppets, if a Maiden album is up against an album I genuinely think is better I will definitely vote for the better album.
 
Iron Maiden - Dance of Death - Not a Top 10 Maiden album, but its top shelf material are enough to push over the edge here.
Coroner - Punishment for Decadence - Pretty much a win by default. The sound is more up my alley than the silly cheesefest it goes up against.
Dark Angel - Darkness Descends - I don't love Darkness Descends, but what on earth are Dimmu Borgir doing? They're like a symphonic metal band with pop sensibilities parodying black metal. Their early output isn't like this at all.
Dark Tranquility - Damage Done - Running Wild is one of the better power metal bands, but Damage Done is one of the few melodic death metal albums I really enjoy.
 
Obviously I'm voting for 'Dance of Death' since I nominated it. I'm aware that it's not a particularly popular Iron Maiden album, especially on Maidenfans, but I really like it. There's the two obvious juggernauts in the title track and 'Paschendale', plus I really enjoy the much maligned opener 'Wildest Dreams'. It's an upbeat, positive "rocker" which I rate very highly. 'Montsegur' is a very under appreciated song and 'Face in the Sand' is one of my favourite Iron Maiden songs. Yeah, there are a couple of duds on 'Dance of Death' but I think most Iron Maiden album have at least one weak song and if they don't then the highs aren't as high as on the albums that do have duds. (I hope that makes sense). There's enough quality on 'Dance of Death' for me to overlook the weaker moments (which I don't think are all that bad) and leads me to rate it higher than most of Iron Maiden's discography.

I can't fucking stand King Diamond's vocals either. :puke:


I've heard some of Luca Turilli's solo project without Rhapsody in the name before, including a couple of songs from 'Prophet of the Last Eclipse', and it's OK. I don't find this particular song to be anything special but the chorus is nice and uplifting I suppose. It could do without all the electronic/techno aspects though - they're just annoying. It's a decent song overall but doesn't make me want to listen to the rest of the album. Coroner have some decent sounding riffs but the vocals are really shitty and this song is a bit too raw for me. I can appreciate a raw sound from time to time, but this would need a bit more polishing to interest me. I'm voting for 'Prophet of the Last Eclipse' without any enthusiasm.

I listened to 'Eonian' a bit when it was released a couple of years ago. My thoughts then were that it was OK. I don't mind Dimmu Borgir too much, particularly as Black Metal bands go (although I think Black Metal fans have rejected them). Their album from 2007 is pretty decent and I listened to that a fair bit several years ago (every song title started with "The" and was three words) but don't know anything else other than that album and 'Eonian'. 'Interdimensional Summit' is an OK song and the vocals are reasonable. The chorus (performed by a choir) is quite nice but it starts to feel less Black Metal and more like Epica when they do this. I suppose that's why they're Symphonic Black Metal. This Dark Angel song sounds decent at the start but the vocals are really shit. Does he want to growl, shriek or snarl? There are many better Thrash vocalists out there who know stick with one thing and don't attempt three different styles in one line. 'Eonian' gets this by a mile over 'Darkness Descends'.

Dark Tranquility have the sort of growly vocals I can deal with because they're got some good music to accompany the vocals that isn't just a discordant barrage of riffs and double bass. I like the attitude and atmosphere of 'Final Resistance' and would like to hear more of 'Damage Done'. They're a band I've thought about exploring before too. Running Wild are band whose music I've heard now and again over the years but I've never felt motivated to listen to them a lot. 'The Privateer' is fun, upbeat and energetic but it's also a bit naff. I'd rather listen to more from Damage Done than from 'Black Hand Inn'. Dark Tranquility just seem like a more interesting prospect.
 
Black Wizard said:
Obviously I'm voting for 'Dance of Death' since I nominated it. I'm aware that it's not a particularly popular Iron Maiden album, especially on Maidenfans, but I really like it. There's the two obvious juggernauts in the title track and 'Paschendale', plus I really enjoy the much maligned opener 'Wildest Dreams'. It's an upbeat, positive "rocker" which I rate very highly. 'Montsegur' is a very under appreciated song and 'Face in the Sand' is one of my favourite Iron Maiden songs. Yeah, there are a couple of duds on 'Dance of Death' but I think most Iron Maiden album have at least one weak song and if they don't then the highs aren't as high as on the albums that do have duds. (I hope that makes sense). There's enough quality on 'Dance of Death' for me to overlook the weaker moments (which I don't think are all that bad) and leads me to rate it higher than most of Iron Maiden's discography.
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I didn't expand on it in my other post, but I think all the tracks on DOD are good tracks, the only issue I have is the lyrics of AOI are reactionary nonsense, but I'd still prefer Steve to write his genuine opinion on things, even if I completely disagree with those opinions, rather than bad lyrics about fictional assassins or nomads.

Where it suffers is that while I like all the tracks, it is top heavy with mid tempo tracks in and around the 6 to 8 minute mark, I realise you could probably say that about every reunion album but I feel that DOD suffers from this more than the rest, perhaps because the running order doesn't help, the equivalent track to Paschendale on practically every other Maiden album either finishes the album or opens a side, whereas Paschendale is in no mans land as it were, which could have a hidden meaning that I never realised until just now :lol: I think GOT and NF are decent tracks which appear worse than they are because they are slapped together in between the albums two big hitters.

I think the cover doesn't help either, it makes no difference to me, but I feel psychologically it kicks the album off on the wrong foot for some people. The mastering is abysmal as well.

TLDR: Tracks good, superficial stuff makes it appear weaker than it is
 
Black Wizard said:
Obviously I'm voting for 'Dance of Death' since I nominated it. I'm aware that it's not a particularly popular Iron Maiden album, especially on Maidenfans, but I really like it. There's the two obvious juggernauts in the title track and 'Paschendale', plus I really enjoy the much maligned opener 'Wildest Dreams'. It's an upbeat, positive "rocker" which I rate very highly. 'Montsegur' is a very under appreciated song and 'Face in the Sand' is one of my favourite Iron Maiden songs. Yeah, there are a couple of duds on 'Dance of Death' but I think most Iron Maiden album have at least one weak song and if they don't then the highs aren't as high as on the albums that do have duds. (I hope that makes sense). There's enough quality on 'Dance of Death' for me to overlook the weaker moments (which I don't think are all that bad) and leads me to rate it higher than most of Iron Maiden's discography.
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I don't always agree but it's always awesome to read why people nominated particular albums!
 
srfc said:
only issue I have is the lyrics of AOI are reactionary nonsense
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That is an issue. I'd also like to bring up the lyrics to New Frontier, which annoy me on a more personal level.
Simply put, it's too Christian.
The song's about a mad scientist! What self-respecting mad scientist worries about such petty things as religion? Why would they care about what God thinks of their creations?
The most important thing about mad scientists is that they take pride in their work! Having the main character be ashamed of starting a "war of God and man" or trying to commit suicide because their experiment succeeded is bad writing!
 
Again, I completely disagree with the lyrics of NF but I'd much prefer Nicko write something he is passionate about rather than another film plot be plagiarized.

I also think he get's his point across pretty well for someone's first go at lyrics and wonder how much of Bruce's editing played a part in this.
 
Midnight said:
That is an issue. I'd also like to bring up the lyrics to New Frontier, which annoy me on a more personal level.
Simply put, it's too Christian.
The song's about a mad scientist! What self-respecting mad scientist worries about such petty things as religion? Why would they care about what God thinks of their creations?
The most important thing about mad scientists is that they take pride in their work! Having the main character be ashamed of starting a "war of God and man" or trying to commit suicide because their experiment succeeded is bad writing!
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If you go back to the original novel Frankenstein, of which ideas for the song were based from, you’ll find that the “mad scientist” in the story ended up hating his creation, rather than being proud of it.

Nicko is more on the money than you give him credit for. I do agree the lyrics aren’t the band’s overall best, but it is a fun song for sure.
 
Diesel 11 said:
Nicko is more on the money than you give him credit for.
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You're right, of course. However, times have changed, and remorseful mad scientists are all but a thing of the past.

Diesel 11 said:
but it is a fun song for sure
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...and this is where I disagree. The song's a bit messy (especially the vocal lines) and there are much better short rockers on this album, such as Wildest Dreams and Rainmaker.
 
Interesting, I didn't quite interpret the lyrics of New Frontier like described here.

I would also rather have bad lyrics on fantasy subjects than bad lyrics on politics. But maybe that's just me. (Good lyrics, obviously, I would prefer.)
 
Midnight said:
You're right, of course. However, times have changed, and remorseful mad scientists are all but a thing of the past.
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Not really, there's plenty of discussion in scientific circles about the ethics of implementing certain scientific procedures we are already capable of and it's not tied to religion at all. It's not something that'll just go away.
 
Midnight said:
You're right, of course. However, times have changed, and remorseful mad scientists are all but a thing of the past.
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Just because mad scientists who are mad-for-mad’s-sake are a dime-a-dozen these days doesn’t mean that one with more depth to them is a thing of the past, or that writing about such a guy is bad writing just because he has remorse. Maiden didn’t exactly knock it out of the park, but I at least understand their attempt at doing such. In fact, given why Nicko was inspired to write New Frontier, the fact that it didn’t end up a cheese-fest of conservative Christian ideology is a paean to how good Maiden are. But that’s IMO.
 
The Flash said:
Not really, there's plenty of discussion in scientific circles about the ethics of implementing certain scientific procedures we are already capable of and it's not tied to religion at all. It's not something that'll just go away.
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Yeah, like you say - discussion. However by completely cutting it off from any concrete system of ethics and embracing the post-modern mentality / philosophy, the rules are always going to be pretty arbitrarily chosen. Also, a lot of the research now is done by corporations who hardly ever feel "remorse". A bad PR at best and even that is not always a leverage.

So yes, truly remorseful scientists as a trope/concept are very well a thing of the past.

But we digress.

Just for the record, I also don't like New Frontier, but mainly because it's pretty bland musically and the lyrics are hackneyed and heavy-handed. I might be whichever level of crazy Christian, but I can't tolerate your generic Christian awkward kitsch.
 
JudasMyGuide said:
Yeah, like you say - discussion. However by completely cutting it off from any concrete system of ethics and embracing the post-modern mentality / philosophy, the rules are always going to be pretty arbitrarily chosen.
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I vehemently disagree with that, I think a "concrete system of ethics", in this sense, is a flawed premise that only religious people think is relevant or necessary to reach moral conclusions in a consistent manner - and for me, what you call "arbitrary choosing" is only "arbitrary" because it doesn't pursue your understanding of ethics. I recognize in advance that we'll probably just go into talking past each other from here on out, though.

JudasMyGuide said:
So yes, truly remorseful scientists as a trope/concept are very well a thing of the past.
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It really isn't, you are either not paying attention, or are trivializing it because it doesn't fit into your premise - I'm thinking the latter, considering the word "arbitrary" you threw in in the previous paragraph.
 
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