Dating Advice For MaidenFans Thread

Ariana

Black-and-white leopard
Many, many women assess how much the man in their life cares about them by how well the man demonstrates that they know them. Unfortunately, many women blur that line to the point where if you don’t proactively read their mood, anticipate what they want, and deliver what they want to them without their having to ask for it, you have failed. This leads to complaining until you change your behavior to match the current prevailing pattern of expectations, but that pattern and her preferences will inevitably change, sometimes on a whim, making it impossible to maintain a high success rate without the ability to read the person’s mind.
You are making all of this sound like a chore. What kind of relationships are you and your friends in? Success rate, deliver, anticipate, proactively... It sounds like a business project to me.
Also, what is wrong with actually showing your partner that you know them and listen to their likes or desires? It's what people who care about each other should gladly do.
And lastly, sweeping generalizations are quite useless here, unless you or anyone else is dating a hundred women at once. What's valid for 99 men or women may not be valid for the one you are dating or want to date, so it doesn't help. I'm sorry but I find statements like "Women always..." or "Men are whatever" really annoying.
 

Onhell

Infinite Dreamer
Paying on dates...
Depends on the date. First through third date I'd say don't. Also first through third date should be something as simple as coffee or something else low pressure, low cost, in public.

If that's a tad extreme at least don't pay on the first date and if it goes well you can say something like, "This was fun, next date on me... that is... if it's ok with you." If they're feeling your vibe, they'll chuckle and say sure. If they're not feeling your vibe it'll get awkward and you saved your self the expense.

NEVER do dinner dates unless it's serious and you guys are exclusive.

Something cool to do on third dates is spend a whole day together. Like... a Saturday or whatever day you both have free. Run it by her and say "I'll get breakfast, you get lunch, we'll go to the movies, I'll get the tickets you get the popcorn and soda, etc." They usually go for it. You both have fun, split costs, no one feels like they owe the other person anything.
 

Lamia020281

Educated Fool
I guess it depends on the culture. In Finland, I've always paid my food/drinks myself on dates, except only a couple of times. My vibe is that it's getting more and more common for everyone to pay for their own. If I was on a date, and the guy offered to pay for me, it would be ok if he did it stylishly, but I prefer guys who don't offer that.
 

Onhell

Infinite Dreamer
You are making all of this sound like a chore. What kind of relationships are you and your friends in? Success rate, deliver, anticipate, proactively... It sounds like a business project to me.
Also, what is wrong with actually showing your partner that you know them and listen to their likes or desires? It's what people who care about each other should gladly do.
And lastly, sweeping generalizations are quite useless here, unless you or anyone else is dating a hundred women at once. What's valid for 99 men or women may not be valid for the one you are dating or want to date, so it doesn't help. I'm sorry but I find statements like "Women always..." or "Men are whatever" really annoying.
I sympathize with your point, but honestly... relationships/marriages are chores. We like to sugar coat them with feelings and that mythical "love." But they take WORK, hence... a chore. You can enjoy doing chores, My GF loves cooking, I don't mind sweeping and moping and I like doing laundry. Neither of us like washing dishes, but sometimes I zone out and take it as a moment to meditate. Same with relationships, you have to work at them, what are we going to do next? What's our next adventure. More often than not that expectation falls on us, WE have to plan the dates and the trips and the this and the that while our partners get to judge if the activity is worth doing or how fun it actually was. One can plan a great day, she likes it, We don't mind doing it again, especially if it was fun, but MOST women will say, "yeah but we already did that, I want something new." If you can't keep up with that they get bored.

This is not a generalization, you can google a number of studies with similar stats on men v women's satisfaction with marriage. Most men are happy with marriage while most women are between unhappy and unsatisfied. There is ONE common denomitator... routine. Men don't mind it, women hate it. The other one is women take it upon themselves to treat us like a subordinate and order us around. We didn't ask for it, but again... we don't mind it, it's less work we have to do if someone else is giving us instructions. So men are happier because they are in better health, women are unhappier, because they're the ones telling us to go to the gym, the doctor, the dentist, etc.
 

Perun

Dominus et deus
Staff member
In all of the above, I wish to express that I do not consent to being included in generalising statements about men, and that if a man says "we" he did not ask me if I agree with the statement before he made it.
 

Onhell

Infinite Dreamer
In all of the above, I wish to express that I do not consent to being included in generalising statements about men, and that if a man says "we" he did not ask me if I agree with the statement before he made it.
WE all like to THINK we are an exception to rules, when more often than not we fall smack in the middle of that bell curve.
 

Night Prowler

Customer Deathcycle Manager
Staff member
In all of the above, I wish to express that I do not consent to being included in generalising statements about men, and that if a man says "we" he did not ask me if I agree with the statement before he made it.
We are all MaidenFans here.
 

Perun

Dominus et deus
Staff member
I can't find myself or my relationship in what you wrote there, so I object to being included in these statements. It's quite simple, really.
 

Onhell

Infinite Dreamer
I can't find myself or my relationship in what you wrote there, so I object against being included in these statements. It's quite simple, really.
Wait... so you don't work at your relationship? lucky you. You must be the one person on earth who doesn't.
 

Perun

Dominus et deus
Staff member
I don't regard self-improvement inside or outside a relationship as a chore, but as life. I don't regard relationships as a chore but as sharing my life with my partner. If you consider relationships a chore, you have the wrong attitude about it. Sorry to be so blunt, but that's how it is.
 

Onhell

Infinite Dreamer
I don't regard self-improvement inside or outside a relationship as a chore, but as life. I don't regard relationships as a chore but as sharing my life with my partner. If you consider relationships a chore, you have the wrong attitude about it. Sorry to be so blunt, but that's how it is.
Oh I see where we differ. Yeah... I see your point, but PERSPECTIVE doesn't change FACTS. For example, it's raining outside. One person grumbles, they HATE the rain, it'll get cold, the streets will flood, traffic will increase and it sucks getting wet. Not to mention power outages. Another person starts jumping for joy. PUDDLES! they LOVE the cold, they can't wait to get home, wrap themselves in their favorite blanket and read a book even if it's by candle light. Their perspectives don't change the fact that it's raining. Whether you enjoy a chore or not doesn't make it any less of one. I LOVE my job, it's still work, I love my relationship, it's still work. As I mentioned in another thread, I don't mind compromise and growing and pleasing my partner, it's part of having one.
 

Onhell

Infinite Dreamer
I don't think we agree on what a chore is.

I'm going by this definition:

Noun
chore
(plural chores)
  1. A task, especially a difficult, unpleasant, or routine one.
I'd say it is a task, doesn't HAVE TO be the rest of that definition or it can be in any number of combinations. It can be easy and unpleasant like cleaning a toilet. Point is, it's subjective. I'm looking at it rather coldly, reading articles and studies for my sociology classes that's how the experts looked at it. They call it "work" they call it "chores" meaning it takes effort. This is a web forum, with people with varying degrees of English fluency and educational levels. Not a peer reviewed journal. Yet I've noticed with increased instances that we have to treat it as such and define our terms and clearly state our thesis rather than try and have a relaxed conversation.
 

Perun

Dominus et deus
Staff member
Well I'm sorry, but we're evidently going by two different understandings of what a chore is, so a misunderstanding is an obvious outcome. If a word has such a central position in the discussion then yes, we will need to know if we are on the same page as concerns the meaning. Otherwise there's no point to the discussion.
 

Onhell

Infinite Dreamer
Well I'm sorry, but we're evidently going by two different understandings of what a chore is, so a misunderstanding is an obvious outcome. If a word has such a central position in the discussion then yes, we will need to know if we are on the same page as concerns the meaning. Otherwise there's no point to the discussion.
Can we agree on "work?" A more neutral term which just means it takes effort? I can use that from here on forward and avoid ambiguous and charged terms like chore?
 

Perun

Dominus et deus
Staff member
We can't, because Ariana originally used the term "chore" and that's what sparked all this.
 

Ariana

Black-and-white leopard
To me a chore is exactly what Perun linked as definition - something unpleasant that I don't want to do. So when I used that word I was referring to Jer's idea of a daunting activity in which you have to prove to *women* that you know them and anticipate what they want you or expect you to do next. It's beyond me why knowing what would make your partner happy and doing it should be considered as such a big deal.
 
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