Dance of Death - re-imagined

Yax

Ancient Mariner
Listened a bit to Gates of Tomorrow. You should scoop 2 khz a bit on the master bus. Depending on what EQ you use that is. Waves Q10 parametric - 3-4 dB, bandwidth around 7-10. It's just a bit too much 2 khz, most audible on the vocals, but a bit on the guitars as well. Otherwise, pretty cool! :)

And Cornfed Hick: Remember what I told you about DM? It wasn't the Mastering Engineer who compressed them to hell to the point of distortion. They were heavily distorted when he received the stems, to the extent that he didn't even want to be credited on the album for it - He didn't want it to be affiliated with it (why on earth didn't he turn it down then?). There isn't any other plausible explanation either (yet the notion that a well known mastering engineer would accept to work with distorted stems such as those, is objectionable as well) GH on the other hand, had other, undistorted stems, brought to them.

My favorite Shirley effort is BNW. AMOLAD can, in my opinion, be slightly boomy in the 140-200 hz area (Harris' bass guitar), which is all too noticable in systems that overreproduce this frequency area, but otherwise excellent.
 

mckindog

Living for Sanctuary from the law
Staff member
I'm not sure I like everything you've done in terms of the flourishes, but overall it's very good. It's just so...spacious.
 

Ranko

I'll shoot the gunner first!
Yax, I guess the mastering engineer didn't mind receiving Iron Maiden album mastering kind of money. :D
 

Yax

Ancient Mariner
I have a hard time believing Maiden would allow the release something that's actually clipping, or that DoD's mastering engineer would clip it. If you render tracks that peak at zero dBFS to mp3, you might experience some clipping as a result of the mp3 compression - A way to avoid that, as a consumer, would be to rip the album to WAV, open it in whatever DAW you use and bring the fader down 0.5 dB, maybe 1 dB, to be extra cautious, and then render it to mp3.

Albums that constantly peak at zero dBFS isn't too uncommon - Actually, it's fairly standard nowadays. Compressed and brickwalled to death, sure (Sebastian Bach's Kicking and Screaming anyone? Although, I must say, that the extreme compression on that album is done pretty damn well. but it isn't actually clipping (unless it clipped earlier in the signal chain) at zero dBFS.

Edit: Or well, it does technically clip off the waveform that reaches beyond zero dBFS, if the peak stays longer than a certain number of samples, so I guess you can call it clipping.
 

moodyman79

Prowler
Hi All,

Lots of comments here and a lot of it very cool indeed. Thanks for the reaction. I knew I wouldn't please everyone and i'm glad everyone has been constructive with their criticisms rather than dismissive.

Yax: I was actually listening to the mix of Gates again today and I agree there is some tweaking needed. Actually on all of the tracks here and there! Also totally agree that BNW is the best Shirley effort. The rest afterwards suffer from a very dull mix in my opinion.

Cornfed Hick: in terms of the legality; I accept your concern. I really don't think it is a massive deal given what goes on elsewhere. However I will make the four tracks available until tomorrow when I will take them down. It will give anyone hasn't downloaded them a chance to if they wish.

I am going to continue to remix the rest of the album and I will start on Face in the Sand later in the week. I will make anything I do available for a limited time as to not upset too many people.

Again, thanks for all the comments, I have really enjoyed reading them and look forward to more.

Thanks for being cool.
 

Maturin

Sköldpadda
I have a hard time believing Maiden would allow the release something that's actually clipping, or that DoD's mastering engineer would clip it. If you render tracks that peak at zero dBFS to mp3, you might experience some clipping as a result of the mp3 compression - A way to avoid that, as a consumer, would be to rip the album to WAV, open it in whatever DAW you use and bring the fader down 0.5 dB, maybe 1 dB, to be extra cautious, and then render it to mp3.

Dance of Death used the master Shirley produced for Steve in the purpose of listening in the car. Steve decided he wanted that and they put what was on that CD on the final product. Shirley of course had not intended this, so it was in many cases just as with the cover-art.

Source: Interview with Kevin Shirley on some Dance or Death or Death on the Road DVD, on youtube.
 

____no5

Free Man
Thanks for your comments Yax & Maturin!

My favorite Shirley effort is BNW. AMOLAD can, in my opinion, be slightly boomy in the 140-200 hz area (Harris' bass guitar), which is all too noticable in systems that overreproduce this frequency area, but otherwise excellent.

+1 to BNW.
I always liked AMOLAD, yet never tried it with a real home system -never I had one until 2013. I'll try it right now and see how it sounds like.

Dance of Death & The Final Frontier sound way too noisy in my ears. TFF even more.
 

Yax

Ancient Mariner
Thanks for your comments Yax & Maturin!



+1 to BNW.
I always liked AMOLAD, yet never tried it with a real home system -never I had one until 2013. I'll try it right now and see how it sounds like.

Dance of Death & The Final Frontier sound way too noisy in my ears. TFF even more.
Noisy? What do you mean? Only thing on TFF that draws to mind is the cymbal leakage in the tom mikes. I might consider that noisy. I would personally have replaced those beats with prominent leakage, but that's just me.
 

____no5

Free Man
I can't determine it. It makes me tired. Not the songs, which are ok, it's the sound. I don't get this in BNW or AMOLAD.

Sound-wise for me: BNW>AMOLAD>DOD>TFF.
 

Yax

Ancient Mariner
Interesting. I myself don't even remotely feel this way, but intriguing that TFF production has that impact on you.
 

Yax

Ancient Mariner
TFF is a bit more scooped in the mids than BNW and AMOLAD. Might be that you don't like scooped mids?
 

Yax

Ancient Mariner
DoD is still, relatively (!) well produced - But, by Maiden studio albums standards, a bit sub par. It's kinda messed up here and there by comparison, with too much energy around 300-700 hz among others, too loud bass guitar and kinda fizzy top end on the guitars. A bit of EQ scooping on the stems (stems, not the 5.1 mix) would probably solve quite a bit, but there's no way to access them. Some guitar frequencies don't mix well with the rest instruments, and that's the main issue - The guitars. Drums could do with a slight bit more top end too.
 

Maturin

Sköldpadda
No idea.. What about DOD?? It is almost as embarrassing as TFF to me.

Embarrassing? On what grounds? Both these albums are not anywhere near bad, in the type of production that was chosen. The Final Frontier has a top rate production. It is raw, sure, but that is also very much of what makes it good. It is just a matter of taste here.
 

Yax

Ancient Mariner
Embarrassing? On what grounds? Both these albums are not anywhere near bad, in the type of production that was chosen. The Final Frontier has a top rate production. It is raw, sure, but that is also very much of what makes it good. It is just a matter of taste here.
In the case of TFF, I agree, it's all taste. I like it a lot. DOD is however, slightly flawed in the spectral balance - But it is still well produced. Just could've been a bit better balanced.
 

____no5

Free Man
Embarrassing? On what grounds? Both these albums are not anywhere near bad, in the type of production that was chosen. The Final Frontier has a top rate production. It is raw, sure, but that is also very much of what makes it good. It is just a matter of taste here.

No grounds.. It's just my personal perception.. There are a few people here who agree that TFF has excellent production and whom opinion I truly respect. So I gave it some chances and I tried a few combinations. I even purchased the CD twice, just in case :D Nothing.
I don't know how to explain it and since I'm not competent in sound engineering and don't have too much time, I'm afraid I will never do.
 

GuineaPig

Ancient Mariner
I'd be interested in hearing these tracks if you could send me a PM.

To me, Dance of Death was a real missed opportunity. It had some of Maiden's very best material, but a mediocre mix and 3-4 superfluous songs. A better-sounding, shorter album would've been counted right among the '80s classics, I think.
 
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