Best Song Contest- Round 3, Part 3- The Grand Final!

Edington

Last Son of The Miracle
Rime is what HoE wants to be - discuss

I wouldn't agree, the theme of each song is very different which is shown in their tone and atmosphere. ROTAM is an epic retelling of an ancient, thrilling tale, whereas Hell On Earth is a haunting, bittersweet reflection on life, possibly Steve's personal view or some other figure (I've seen a few theorise that it's a follow-up to Senjutsu).

I suppose you could connect the two by saying both songs are sung from the viewpoint of an old man who is reflecting on his past life, but I think the similarities end there.
 

Diesel 11

As you scream into the web of silence...
I’m shocked it’s this close. Look, “Hell on Earth” is a very good song, but “Rime” is the greatest composition in heavy metal history. It’s the culmination of a perfect album, and each of its thirteen minutes is incredible. Bruce’s “rain” scream alone clinches it.

Here are my complaints about “Hell on Earth”:
• The quiet intro is a bit longer than it needs to be. Five repetition each of two passages is a bit much. The payoff is worth it, though.
• Steve’s lyrics are a bit half-baked. “Not to reason why that armed children are in this world…” “Mourning bleak and utter waste…” “You dance on the graves who bled for us…” These are kind of awkward lines and a little confusing.
• The chorus desperately needs a repeat. It’s just too good to be hit only once.
• The post-chorus slow-down into the solo is a little awkward, you’ve got a freight train of momentum and then the song seems to put on the brakes.
• The quiet bridge is effective but Bruce does sound like he’s just dropping random words as fast he sings them.

For comparison, hear are my critiques of Rime:
• Wish the outro wasn’t as sudden.

Yeah, this is a no-brainer. And as good as I’m sure HoE will be live, “Rime” is already Maiden’s greatest live song and the highlight of every setlist it’s been on.
 

Melony

Educated Fool
Hell no! That's one of the best parts... Just another one of these little things that make HoE sound so fresh.

You can hear Steve here passing the baton to Adrian, asking him to repeat and spin on what he said with the lyrics of the chorus, only now not with words, but in the language of the guitar.
A task that Adrian of course executes flawlessly. An original idea that makes perfect sense to my ears.
 

MindlessPieces

Educated Fool
I’m shocked it’s this close. Look, “Hell on Earth” is a very good song, but “Rime” is the greatest composition in heavy metal history.
Iron Maiden epics that I'd rather listen to than Rime
Hell on Earth
The Parchment
Death of the Celts
When the Wild Wind Blows
The Red and the Black
Dance of Death
Hallowed be thy Name
Alexander the great
Infinite Dreams
Lost in a Lost World
Senjutsu
Empire of the Clouds
Book or Souls
If Eternity should fail
The Talisman
For the Greater good of God
Paschendale
Nomad
Thin Line between Love and Hate
Dream of mirrors
Fear of the Dark
Seventh Son of a Seventh Son
Caught Somewhere in Time
Revelations
Phantom of the Opera

That's 25 songs of what I personally would classify as Iron Maiden Epics that are much better than Rime. I would also classify heaps of other band's epics much better than Rime.
Rime is the worst song on the best Iron Maiden album, that makes it number 8 on just that album alone.


Rime is highly repetitive and really quite dull. I'd take Hell on Earth over it any day. Not even close.
 

Kalata

Out of the Silent Planet
I’m shocked it’s this close. Look, “Hell on Earth” is a very good song, but “Rime” is the greatest composition in heavy metal history. It’s the culmination of a perfect album, and each of its thirteen minutes is incredible. Bruce’s “rain” scream alone clinches it.

Here are my complaints about “Hell on Earth”:
• The quiet intro is a bit longer than it needs to be. Five repetition each of two passages is a bit much. The payoff is worth it, though.
• Steve’s lyrics are a bit half-baked. “Not to reason why that armed children are in this world…” “Mourning bleak and utter waste…” “You dance on the graves who bled for us…” These are kind of awkward lines and a little confusing.
• The chorus desperately needs a repeat. It’s just too good to be hit only once.
• The post-chorus slow-down into the solo is a little awkward, you’ve got a freight train of momentum and then the song seems to put on the brakes.
• The quiet bridge is effective but Bruce does sound like he’s just dropping random words as fast he sings them.

For comparison, hear are my critiques of Rime:
• Wish the outro wasn’t as sudden.

Yeah, this is a no-brainer. And as good as I’m sure HoE will be live, “Rime” is already Maiden’s greatest live song and the highlight of every setlist it’s been on.
Maiden/Steve usually repeat some of the passages four times (I think), so the intro of Hell On Earth could have been shorter, but I think the outro should have been shorter.
About the lyrics, the ones in the pre-chorus and chorus are amazing, and I like that the song is connected to the title track of the album with its lyrics in the calm middle part.
I agree about the chorus, but the song is still a masterpiece.
The transition to the calm middle part is perfect imo (the tempo changes through the whole song perfectly describe the emotion and the title of the song) and Bruce's singing is great there. It needs to sound like the narrator is in a hurry, especially given the second chorus that follows and the topic of the song.

The outro of Rime is perfect imo, the tale never ends. The song is indeed the greatest composition in heavy metal history (Hell On Earth could have been too... the repetition of the chorus ''issue''), but I'm not sure it's Maiden's greatest live song. It's up there though.

The tie confirms once again how strong of a song is Hell On Earth. I definitely didn't expect to be so close to Rime.
You can hear Steve here passing the baton to Adrian, asking him to repeat and spin on what he said with the lyrics of the chorus, only now not with words, but in the language of the guitar.
A task that Adrian of course executes flawlessly. An original idea that makes perfect sense to my ears.
I think Janick is usually the one who does these fills in the studio.
 

Diesel 11

As you scream into the web of silence...
Rime is highly repetitive and really quite dull.
Struggling to take this comment seriously when most of the epics you’ve got listed are even more repetitive than “Rime”. I don’t even think “Rime” is among Maiden’s most repetitive songs, the only part that repeats is the beginning and end, and that’s for a circular composition. (“And the tale goes on and on and on and on…”) I mean, shit:

Iron Maiden epics that I'd rather listen to than Rime
Hell on Earth
The Parchment
Death of the Celts
When the Wild Wind Blows
The Red and the Black
Dance of Death
Hallowed be thy Name
Alexander the great
Infinite Dreams
Lost in a Lost World
Senjutsu
Empire of the Clouds
Book or Souls
If Eternity should fail
The Talisman
For the Greater good of God
Paschendale
Nomad
Thin Line between Love and Hate
Dream of mirrors
Fear of the Dark
Seventh Son of a Seventh Son
Caught Somewhere in Time
Revelations
Phantom of the Opera
• “Hell on Earth” has a very repetitive intro. Intro repeats in the outro.
• “The Parchment” has several repetitive sections that gets extended quite a bit. Also intro repeats as the outro.
• “Death of the Celts” repeats the same verse structure three times in a row (albeit the first time quietly). Also repeats the intro in the outro.
• “When the Wild Wind Blows” repeats the intro in the outro.
• “The Red and the Black” repeats the intro in the outro, plus the “woah oh oh oh oh” section is repeated five different times, plus the chorus itself is four different stanzas done fairly slowly, PLUS the last third of the instrumental is repeated twice in a row.
• “Dance of Death” intro repeated in the outro.
• “Hallowed Be Thy Name” is fairly slow as it switches through its sections, making them seem more repetitive than they are, but also parts 2&3 of the instrumental get repeated four times each.
• “Alexander the Great” has three choruses and three/four verses, making it a very standard song structure.
• “Infinite Dreams” is similar to “Rime” albeit a bit inverted in that section 2 is also used as the closing section.
• “Lost in a Lost World” has a slow intro that repeats twice, plus a repetitive chorus, plus a very repetitive instrumental section, plus an outro that repeats the pre-chorus but extends it to make it even more repetitive.
• “Senjutsu” has a very lengthy bridge/verse middle that gets repetitive in its loops.
• “Empire of the Clouds” repeats almost every piece of that song ad nauseum. Also the main piano riff is nicked directly from “Rime”.
• “The Book of Souls” is very sluggish so the two choruses with their four lines each are a bit repetitive. Also intro repeats in the outro.
• “If Eternity Should Fail” repeats the same two phrases twice, twice, and then four times in the last chorus.
• “The Talisman” has four verse/pre-chorus sections, plus a lengthy repetitive intro.
• “For the Greater Good of God” repeats the pre-chorus six times and the same chorus line sixteen times. Also intro is outro.
• “Paschendale” repeats the intro in the outro, and repeats the first verse/chorus structure at the end.
• “The Nomad” repeats the verse structure several times, also repeats the Beckett instrumental several times, also the pre-chorus twice and the real chorus thrice.
• “The Thin Line Between Love and Hate” repeats the pre-chorus twice and the real chorus thrice and the same title line twice as well.
• “Dream of Mirrors” first off repeats the chorus stanza twice each chorus, and also repeats the chorus as a whole four times. Also “the dream is true” is repeated a lot. Also the verse/pre-chorus repeats thrice as well.
• “Fear of the Dark” repeats the chorus five times. Also the line “fear of the dark” is repeated 28 times. Also intro is outro.
• “Seventh Son of a Seventh Son” repeats the same chorus line sixteen times, plus the mid section is just “Rime” 2: Spookier Boogaloo.
• “Caught Somewhere in Time” repeats the same chorus line eleven times because the chorus doubles itself. Also the verse gets repeated three times in the first section and twice in the second.
• “Revelations” has “Rime” structure in that the first section loops around at the end again. Also the post-first section riff gets repeated eight times IIRC.
• “Phantom” also has “Rime” structure, the first verse part is also looped around to again by the end.

These are NOT criticisms of the songs, because for a lot of them the repetitions are necessary and work super well. But I fail to see how repetition is an argument against “Rime” when Iron Maiden uses it all the damn time.
 

CountryChurchyard

Anti-Growth Coalition
Anyone want to break this tie?

Hell on Earth is great*, but the climax of Mariner is the greatest moment in Maiden history, so it gets my vote.

*Those melodies don't wander particularly far, the harmonic structure is surely familiar at that point, but it really does take talent and/or hard labour to come up with something so refreshing. You could noodle on your plank of choice for an age and not strike gold.
 

MindlessPieces

Educated Fool
Struggling to take this comment seriously when most of the epics you’ve got listed are even more repetitive than “Rime”. I don’t even think “Rime” is among Maiden’s most repetitive songs, the only part that repeats is the beginning and end, and that’s for a circular composition. (“And the tale goes on and on and on and on…”) I mean, shit:

These are NOT criticisms of the songs, because for a lot of them the repetitions are necessary and work super well. But I fail to see how repetition is an argument against “Rime” when Iron Maiden uses it all the damn time.

It's not just about repetition,
But you make claims about Rime as if it is a universal fact. "greatest composition in heavy metal history"
It really is quite a claim, but of course just really an individual's opinion.

I wasn't citing these other songs as evidence of less repetition, but as evidence of Maiden Epics that I personally like way better than Rime. They are way more interesting, structure wise rhythmically, melodically... If put up on a head to head vote, I would vote them all as more interesting and more preferrable a listen to Rime. This is my genuine personal taste on this.
That main riff of Rime "doog, duga dug, duga dug" repeats like hundreds of times. It's uninteresting.
I get it, the band wanted to retell the ancient mariner story, so they needed lots and lots of verses. It just made the song itself very lengthy, very repetitive and overtime very uninteresting. That quiet mid section goes on way too long. It is dull and just drags out.
The song isn't musically complex, it's just long.
 

Melony

Educated Fool
Maiden/Steve usually repeat some of the passages four times (I think), so the intro of Hell On Earth could have been shorter, but I think the outro should have been shorter.
About the lyrics, the ones in the pre-chorus and chorus are amazing, and I like that the song is connected to the title track of the album with its lyrics in the calm middle part.
...

For me the intro isn't too long and repetitive. After all, it could be divided into 7 different parts.
I rather had to think of the ideas of the opera reform by composer Christoph Willibald Ritter von Gluck, who wanted a plot-related overture, with motifs that also appear in the following opera, in order to make the audience familiar with them. In this regard, it then also makes sense to play the motifs contained in the overture not only once.
The outro is about floating over into infinity, so the length also makes sense to me.

The thing with the bleeding graves, however - I also wonder if that could have been avoided.
 
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