What is an epic to you?

Number 6

Number 6

Ancient Mariner
Okay, so! I've looked all over across this forum (and elsewhere) to try and piece together a general consensus on the definition of an epic. For example, we have Maiden tracks commonly referred to as "epics" (like "Phantom of the Opera", "Hallowed Be Thy Name", "Rime of the Ancient Mariner"). But what defines an epic? How far does a song have to go in order to become an epic? This is what I'm seeking to answer. So, answer if you can: to you, what is it that pushes a song over the extra mile to be called "an epic"?
 
I would say it would have to be a longer song that deals with a significant theme. I don’t think you could call a 3 minute song an epic. Also, a song that has lyrics about something trivial wouldn’t qualify. That’s my opinion!
 
I think there are two ways to looking at epic songs.
  • There are songs that are epic. "Painkiller" is fast and furious and it's definitely epic. "Still Life" is very epic in its nature, despite being a shorter song. Same with "Mother Russia".
  • Then there are epics. A song can be epic, and a song can also be an epic. For me, an epic is something that usually lasts over 8 minutes. For instance, "Hallowed" and "Phantom" might be epic, but they're not long enough to be an epic.
The only song which blurs the line is "Mother Russia", which somehow manages to be an epic despite its shorter run-time. Conversely, much as I love "The Angel and the Gambler", it's definitely not epic despite its run-time which makes it an epic.

Just my thoughts.
 
Yep. Mother Russia is epic despite being under 6 minutes. Its music is mesmerizing and dramatic. The lyrics sound empathic(/worried). This is not "light", shallow material. This goes deeper than the average song.
 
Well, the way I see it an epic song has a lot to do with the feeling of it. It doesn't necessarily have to do with the length. So I guess this is quite different to what Steve considers an epic (at least nowadays). So to me Rime can never be considered as being an epic but on the other hand SSOSS is definitely one hell of an epic.
 
Black Wizard said:
How many posts will there be in this thread before Perun chimes in with the classical definition of an epic from Ancient Greek literature?
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From the Wikipedia article on "epic poetry": "Classical epic poetry recounts a journey, either physical or mental or both. Epics also tend to highlight cultural norms and to define or call into question cultural values, particularly as they pertain to heroism."
If this is the classical definition (@Perun?), we can name a lot of Maiden songs that fall under this...

Myself, I agree that length isn't the definitive factor. It's probably more a question of whether there's a unified mood/theme that ties the lyrics and music together, and whether the listener is taken on some sort of journey as stated in the article. Emotions definitely play a big part for me too, but overall it's difficult to explain.
 
Forostar said:
Besides length it's bombast, "urgence" ("importance" of some topic, drive/massiveness of the music), atmosphere and mythical/adventurous aspects in a song. Plus enough variety.
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I would say this hits it on the head, and I would also add sonic dynamics (which may be what you meant by variety, Foro). To simply have a long song that doesn't change tones, volume, textures, etc. IMO would mean it's probably not an epic.

As much as I think length is a prime factor in the definition, I also think it's possible to have shorter epics as long as the other elements are there. For instance:


Forostar said:
Of course, Rime is also an epic. It is not only about length. There is so much more to it. Totally fits the definition.
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Absolutely. Without question Rime is one of Maiden's most obvious epics (along with Empire of the Clouds). As with the Armored Saint song above, I might even consider Powerslave as an epic song.

MarcoHietalaIM said:
I don't think that the members of the band would like to classify their music or even care.
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Every time you post I think Marco Hietala is actually on these boards, judging us with his superior metalness.
 
Diesel 11 said:
I think there are two ways to looking at epic songs.
  • There are songs that are epic. "Painkiller" is fast and furious and it's definitely epic. "Still Life" is very epic in its nature, despite being a shorter song. Same with "Mother Russia".
  • Then there are epics. A song can be epic, and a song can also be an epic. For me, an epic is something that usually lasts over 8 minutes. For instance, "Hallowed" and "Phantom" might be epic, but they're not long enough to be an epic.
The only song which blurs the line is "Mother Russia", which somehow manages to be an epic despite its shorter run-time. Conversely, much as I love "The Angel and the Gambler", it's definitely not epic despite its run-time which makes it an epic.

Just my thoughts.
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Basically, you are underlining the difference between an adjective and a noun, aren't you? ;)
 
The songs have energy, power, a story line, emphasizing vocals, usually an intro that builds up, guitar solos and is usually at least 6 minutes

These are my solid choices

Phantom of the Opera
Hallowed be thy Name
Powerslave
Rime of the Ancient Mariner
Caught Somewhere in Time
The Loneliness of the Long Distance Runner
Alexander the Great
Infinite Dreams
Seventh Son
Fear of the Dark
Sign of the Cross
Paschendale
ect.........
 
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