D
Deleted member 7164
Guest
Because he did. Smith confirmed it in an interview straight just like that, interview conducted while Burr was having terminal stages of MS. I don't think that anyone would lie in that situation...
Why did Steve Harris fire Clive Burr ?
- Thread starter johnglen
- Start date
Because he did. Smith confirmed it in an interview straight just like that, interview conducted while Burr was having terminal stages of MS. I don't think that anyone would lie in that situation...
CriedWhenBrucieLeft
Meme Only Account
@MrKnickerbocker do you have any suggestions as to why Steve fired Clive?
MrKnickerbocker
clap hands
I'll bet it had something to do with that near miss he has while playing the beat during Murray's first solo in Prodigal Son. He plays through the second Murray solo perfectly, but he almost baffs a hit about halfway through the first one. You'd have to be there, I guess, cause it sounds fine on the record, but even Davey said that it messed him up a bit while recording that first solo.
CriedWhenBrucieLeft
Meme Only Account
That's exactly what I heard too. That's why he was fired.
CriedWhenBrucieLeft
Meme Only Account
The Prodigal Son story is no joke.
MrKnickerbocker
clap hands
The direction Maiden wanted to go was to have Davey solo on every single song starting with the entire Killers album (on which you can hear him turn amazing double leads on The Ides of March, Another Life, Innocent Exile, Killers, Prodigal Son - of course, Drifter, and Murders in the Rue Morgue - in which he solos with himself!). Clive rationalized that maybe if he screwed up during some of Davey's solos, Steve might think it was round-face's fault and Adrian might get to play some leads every now and then. This obviously got him fired.
CriedWhenBrucieLeft
Meme Only Account
Not sure what you're suggesting...
Cried doesn't have an office.
Are you saying H was behind all this? This is shocking.
MrKnickerbocker
clap hands
I don't know, sounds just like the kind of subtle layering H has built a career out of...
CriedWhenBrucieLeft
Meme Only Account
Are you talking about his new hair?
MrKnickerbocker
clap hands
Of course. What else?
Operations666
Educated Fool
Nicko was a better fit for the proggier and more expansive direction Steve took the band in after TNotB. Clive hit harder, but Nicko's sound is "bigger".
RueMorgue
Invader
Hi, new here. Fascinating thread.
I saw Maiden play on November 15th, 1982 at The Palais in Melbourne, Australia. Clive was unquestionably in the band when I saw them. He was my fave band member and he was a matter of yards away from where I stood in the second or third row.
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lira
Nomad
We're on a mission from Burr...
Know Ronald Burr's death date would solve definitely the mistery of when Clive was replaced. But i'm afraid we'll have to make the long ride.
Having said that, i believe that a band must take 3 or 4 days off for preparations before do the replacement, or they'll cancel the gig. Also, i believe Nicko wouldn't play a full gig nor would execute any drum solo in the set.
I did my research in 4 steps:
1) 82 audio bootlegs - from May to August (1st North American leg), and from September to October (2nd North American leg)
Definitely the most difficult and erratic task. You'll be exhausted trying to hear something "different". Even if you're a drummer or have trained ears you'll end up bumping into bad quality, slower, dusty recordings, and sometimes you'll hear Clive missing tempos and hitting bad notes, which can lead you into believing it's Nicko. I had to hear some anyway, but can't expect only differences in style.
2) 82 videos
There are only 2 of significance apart of Hammersmith official vid, but they cover an important area.
INSTORE SIGNING - Kalamazoo, U.S.A., May 1982
Kalamazoo instore was filmed only a few days after Maiden enter North America for the 1st time in this tour. Nicko was Trust's drummer, whose band supported Maiden on April in Europe. Then Maiden flew to the USA in May while Nicko stayed in Europe with Trust until his departure around June.
In USA/Canada, Maiden had literally no gap between dates. So instead of rehearsing with Nicko, considering their hyper tight schedule from May to August, they would probably cancel the gig if Burr couldn't make it.
AUSTRALIAN TV. Nov 1982
That's after the 2nd and last North American leg. Clive Burr was in the band after their last visit to the USA as RueMorgue said. As far as i know there are no Australian (real) bootlegs available (the only one from 16-11-1982 is said to be an Oxford gig). So let's say from now that "Burr is back" in this TV show in Australia.
3) 82 pictures
As been said earlier in this topic, Nicko replaced Burr in the summer. I've heard about that too, although i don't recall the source. So I particularly looked after Maiden pics from North America, 1st leg. That should cover the summer part of the tour. We have Burr in June, July and August playing with Maiden. And... he is happy! I don't think he would be happy after his father's death and knowing he would soon leave the band. And interestingly enough, there is this picture here from 21st September in Chicago, where he seems deadly serious. Found out that I don't have a lot of pics with Burr from that part and in all of them he seems fatter and serious. Coincidence or just my imagination?
4) Maiden official biographies
I'm almost sure the replacement thing came into agreement at the Reading Festival. Whether it has now something to do with Burr's father, i don't care, as we don't know the funeral date and I assume we can surpass this subject. Also I'm not claiming it's Reading because of any resemblance with the Paul-Bruce thing. But...who knows? Anyway, I came to a conclusion after a view on Running Free 1985 edition book.
Garry Bushell accompanied the band in their 1st USA leg and covered this performance of the band in Texas on August (page 105). On the same page there is a picture of the author and Burr in Texas, sitting down and smiling. Again, would he be happy if anything like that happened? But then comes what i consider the keypoint: Gary says "H and Murray swapped sizzling guitar pyrotechnics. Dave excelling himself with that smashing first break on 'Number' while Clive Burr contended himself bashing out a solid beat from the rear. Little did i know that this would be the last time I'd see Clive play live...".
Well, he didn't say it was the last time he saw the BAND play but CLIVE. So here is something! He covered what was Maiden's last gig in the U.S.A. before flying back for a few warm up gigs and the Reading Festival. And yes, Clive did play at the festival, but Gary Bushell apparently wasn't there. On page 108 it shows he was aware of what happened there but he used quotes from Kerrang magazine to describe what happened.
On the next paragraph Gary don't go into details about the 2nd North American leg gigs (why?), only says that Maiden sold out shows in New York and Hammersmith Swan. He didn't go to Australia and Japan, as well. And that's why he saw Clive last playing in Texas. I presume Gary only saw the band in the first European part and in U.S.A.
On a final note, I suggest you to listen the September 4th, 1982 Oakland bootleg. Only 6 songs and some different drum hitting style in my opinion.
Know Ronald Burr's death date would solve definitely the mistery of when Clive was replaced. But i'm afraid we'll have to make the long ride.
Having said that, i believe that a band must take 3 or 4 days off for preparations before do the replacement, or they'll cancel the gig. Also, i believe Nicko wouldn't play a full gig nor would execute any drum solo in the set.
I did my research in 4 steps:
1) 82 audio bootlegs - from May to August (1st North American leg), and from September to October (2nd North American leg)
Definitely the most difficult and erratic task. You'll be exhausted trying to hear something "different". Even if you're a drummer or have trained ears you'll end up bumping into bad quality, slower, dusty recordings, and sometimes you'll hear Clive missing tempos and hitting bad notes, which can lead you into believing it's Nicko. I had to hear some anyway, but can't expect only differences in style.
2) 82 videos
There are only 2 of significance apart of Hammersmith official vid, but they cover an important area.
INSTORE SIGNING - Kalamazoo, U.S.A., May 1982
Kalamazoo instore was filmed only a few days after Maiden enter North America for the 1st time in this tour. Nicko was Trust's drummer, whose band supported Maiden on April in Europe. Then Maiden flew to the USA in May while Nicko stayed in Europe with Trust until his departure around June.
In USA/Canada, Maiden had literally no gap between dates. So instead of rehearsing with Nicko, considering their hyper tight schedule from May to August, they would probably cancel the gig if Burr couldn't make it.
AUSTRALIAN TV. Nov 1982
That's after the 2nd and last North American leg. Clive Burr was in the band after their last visit to the USA as RueMorgue said. As far as i know there are no Australian (real) bootlegs available (the only one from 16-11-1982 is said to be an Oxford gig). So let's say from now that "Burr is back" in this TV show in Australia.
3) 82 pictures
As been said earlier in this topic, Nicko replaced Burr in the summer. I've heard about that too, although i don't recall the source. So I particularly looked after Maiden pics from North America, 1st leg. That should cover the summer part of the tour. We have Burr in June, July and August playing with Maiden. And... he is happy! I don't think he would be happy after his father's death and knowing he would soon leave the band. And interestingly enough, there is this picture here from 21st September in Chicago, where he seems deadly serious. Found out that I don't have a lot of pics with Burr from that part and in all of them he seems fatter and serious. Coincidence or just my imagination?
4) Maiden official biographies
I'm almost sure the replacement thing came into agreement at the Reading Festival. Whether it has now something to do with Burr's father, i don't care, as we don't know the funeral date and I assume we can surpass this subject. Also I'm not claiming it's Reading because of any resemblance with the Paul-Bruce thing. But...who knows? Anyway, I came to a conclusion after a view on Running Free 1985 edition book.
Garry Bushell accompanied the band in their 1st USA leg and covered this performance of the band in Texas on August (page 105). On the same page there is a picture of the author and Burr in Texas, sitting down and smiling. Again, would he be happy if anything like that happened? But then comes what i consider the keypoint: Gary says "H and Murray swapped sizzling guitar pyrotechnics. Dave excelling himself with that smashing first break on 'Number' while Clive Burr contended himself bashing out a solid beat from the rear. Little did i know that this would be the last time I'd see Clive play live...".
Well, he didn't say it was the last time he saw the BAND play but CLIVE. So here is something! He covered what was Maiden's last gig in the U.S.A. before flying back for a few warm up gigs and the Reading Festival. And yes, Clive did play at the festival, but Gary Bushell apparently wasn't there. On page 108 it shows he was aware of what happened there but he used quotes from Kerrang magazine to describe what happened.
On the next paragraph Gary don't go into details about the 2nd North American leg gigs (why?), only says that Maiden sold out shows in New York and Hammersmith Swan. He didn't go to Australia and Japan, as well. And that's why he saw Clive last playing in Texas. I presume Gary only saw the band in the first European part and in U.S.A.
On a final note, I suggest you to listen the September 4th, 1982 Oakland bootleg. Only 6 songs and some different drum hitting style in my opinion.
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Forostar
Ancient Mariner
Nice Lira. But I am convinced that the bootlegs are the deciding factors. I am also convinced that I can hear significant differences between Nicko and Clive in specific moments in specific songs. I will not get exhausted by it. But what I, and possibly other people who are into drums, lack is: bootlegs !
More collaboration is needed.
On that sentence about Clive, by Bushell: he hadn't seen the last legs of the Beast on the Road tour, it was the last time that he saw Clive with the band. So that still doesn't say much about when Clive left. He might not have seen any gigs after Reading?
He saw the band play in 1983 and in 1984. That's why didn't say he saw the band for the last time.
More collaboration is needed.
On that sentence about Clive, by Bushell: he hadn't seen the last legs of the Beast on the Road tour, it was the last time that he saw Clive with the band. So that still doesn't say much about when Clive left. He might not have seen any gigs after Reading?
He saw the band play in 1983 and in 1984. That's why didn't say he saw the band for the last time.
Forostar
Ancient Mariner
Not that revealing, but still interesting to hear a band member saying something in 1983 about it.
https://earofnewt.com/2016/04/10/br...t-before-iron-maiden-plays-vancouver-in-1983/
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D
Deleted member 7164
Guest
Re. Oakland bootleg. That could be Nicko. By the swing of it. Sadly the cymbals are very muted in the recording.
Forostar
Ancient Mariner
I found these pictures:
.. telling us that Nicko was not playing with the band on 22 October 1982. Clive had returned. The question remains when.
This gig has a bootleg recording* so if someone has it, the playing style could be compared with any bootleg Nicko might be playing on.
*It's one recording, made at Brendan Byrne Arena / East Rutherford, New Jersey – USA
on 22nd October 1982.
And it was issued in three different bootleg formats:
EAST RUTHERFORD 22.10.1982
NEW JERSEY '82
EAST RUTHERFORD
.. telling us that Nicko was not playing with the band on 22 October 1982. Clive had returned. The question remains when.
This gig has a bootleg recording* so if someone has it, the playing style could be compared with any bootleg Nicko might be playing on.
*It's one recording, made at Brendan Byrne Arena / East Rutherford, New Jersey – USA
on 22nd October 1982.
And it was issued in three different bootleg formats:
EAST RUTHERFORD 22.10.1982
NEW JERSEY '82
EAST RUTHERFORD
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soundwave
Educated Fool
I think the key point here is that it's not what we can discern from demos, it all comes down to Steve's perception. It's pretty evident from the Mick Wall book that Steve was getting really nervous about Clive, and Steve didn't think Clive was taking it seriously enough. It doesn't really matter if Steve's nervousness was justified or not; he's the boss.
I think context is important here. 1982 was a crazy time for the band, and the stakes were getting higher at an exponential pace -- there was a lot on the line as they had evolved from a east-end pub band into a professional business in only a few short years . Clive might have been able to handle his drinking/partying, but if Steve was perceiving that Clive wasn't going to be able handle the increasing stress/workload/high profile gigs, especially when careers and salaries (and big money) are on the line, then Clive's days would be numbered. I think this is supported by Bruce's quote in the Wall book that he regrets that Clive wasn't "given more time to sort himself out" - which implies that things were moving fast, and Steve wasn't taking any chances during the band's meteoric trajectory.
It sucks for Clive as he could be totally innocent, but it's just like at work - if the CEO loses confidence in you (for whatever reason - whether it's quantifiable or not), you're done.
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matic22
Ancient Mariner
There is one thing to be said about money during Beast On The Road tour. Band members recieved 100 pounds per week (I read that in an interview with Bruce). Rod, being a true Yorkshireman was saving up money for production of the next albums and tours. The first big paycheck that the members recieved was after World Slavery Tour.