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Unpopular Maiden Opinions

Discussion in 'Maiden Chat' started by THESEVENTHMARINER, Aug 31, 2014.

  1. Gk1

    Gk1 Ancient Mariner

    Yep, this is right. The are also more layers in The Legacy. I just feel that this needs to be done more often. As for BWN....so in a complete album we get 10 sec of triple guitar harmony. come on guys you know what I am talking about :p
     
  2. Whooten

    Whooten Educated Fool

    I find that I am liking The Great Unknown more and more now a year and half after Book of Souls' release. The same cannot be true of The Red and the Black which used to get me pumped, but now feels like a slog to get through.
     
  3. harrisdevot

    harrisdevot Ancient Mariner

    I certainly don't rank Paschendale very high, it would be in my bottom 20. I don't think I've listened to it during the last 5 years.
     
    Whooten likes this.
  4. frus

    frus Barbed Wire Hen

    You know, I don't think triple harmony even sounds that good, especially if the song doesn't call for it. For instance, I liked the Trooper harmony better with just two guitars

    Double harmony + rhythm guitar is a good use of 3 guitar players
     
  5. Ruflux

    Ruflux Nomad

    I feel like the exact opposite, honestly. Dual harmony + rhythm guitar feels like a waste of a perfectly good guitar player to me, unless the harmony is very specific in such a way that it'd probably not be improved with the addition of a third harmonizing guitar. Everywhere else three guitars makes for a richer, better sounding harmony section. The Trooper especially benefits from this, since it gives the harmony a bit more texture, largely thanks to Adrian's playing.

    Caught Somewhere in Time is probably the biggest obvious exception, I can't see that harmony working as a three-part, and especially not considering that would mean no rhythm guitar to hold it together (it always sounded kinda weird live to me).
     
    Zare, soundwave and Gk1 like this.
  6. CriedWhenBrucieLeft

    CriedWhenBrucieLeft Ancient Mariner

    Somebody can correct me here, but I'm pretty sure Dave & Adrian are playing their original harmonies & Janick plays the new higher harmony. Live, it certainly sounds like Janick.

    Again, this default assumption of the forum seems to be anything that's better must be Adrian. Is it though?
     
  7. soundwave

    soundwave Educated Fool

    Agreed on CSIT. Most of the time, I don't mind when it's just Steve and Nicko holding it down live during the harmonies, but CSIT always felt a bit empty to me live with out the corresponding rhythm guitar galloping along. Wish I could hear this one live in the 'three amigos era' (as long as Janick doesn't take a solo).
     
  8. Gk1

    Gk1 Ancient Mariner

    It is not easy to tell by the e.g En Vivo video. It might as well be Janick. I however get why we mostly expect H to be the one. I mean he is always the one to add a melody, or a phrase, or something extra. (At least in the "Re-union" songs.
     
  9. Gk1

    Gk1 Ancient Mariner

    To be honest with you in most songs they do not even harmonize anymore. Let's say that having a rhythm guitar as a concept is not all bad. In my opinion doing "octave dabbling" instead of a real "harmony" is something I don't get. Yet again H tried to do it in some show over The red and the black and Speed of light (both of them live) and it sounded so much better.
    Please have a listen here...



    on 2m13sec

    and then just picture the whole melody done that way. Or even better ALL the new song melodies played that way........To me it sounds so much better and "classic" Maiden.
     
    Last edited: Mar 3, 2017
  10. ghkghk

    ghkghk Trooper

    Run to th Hills is not a Top 50 Maiden song. It wouldn't even make my top 100.

    A Matter of Life and Death is Maiden's only album where all their songs are really good.

    Como estáis amigos is Virtual XI best song.

    Half of Maiden's most underrated songs are from TFF. Starblind, Isle of Avalon, WTWWB and The Talisman. The other four being The Loneliness, Duellists, To Tame a Land and Judgement of heaven.

    Killers is close to Virtual XI as their worst album.

    I like Gers live.

    Monchild and CIPWM are what separates Seventh son from being perfect.
     
  11. eddie666

    eddie666 Trooper

    Such is life. Sad but true.
    It's like a rocket firework. The initial 5 albums are hugely exciting as the rocket rises at considerable speed(Ooh!) culminating in an agreeable explosion(Ahh!) with PS-7th. Then the fall begins and disappointment sets in, but we still have strong directional movement with Prayer-VXI. Hitting and bouncing around on the ground are the reunion records, incorporating small rises and falls, but nowhere near the excitement/disappointment of before, thus everything becoming just ok.
    Finally we stop all movement and die. Hello Bos.

    Personal opinion will determine which part someone prefers(and which band it's applied to), but after the initial spring rise it's a corruption of the purity of the original premise.
     
  12. Gk1

    Gk1 Ancient Mariner

    But still, it only takes an average producer to actually tell Maiden that they need to have a few more takes for a better result. It is not rocket science...they've done for 12 years until 1992.
     
  13. Forostar

    Forostar Conjure the Death Star again

    Is this so exceptional? By the way, I know it is not a sing-along melody but did you realize that Janick (and no one else!) does play the melody in the pre-chorus. How do you like that?

    Have you noticed that on the Book of Souls tour, it turned out that Adrian and Janick are doing most two guitar harmonies in new songs? Dave took over the backing guitar role behind these harmonies. This includes Speed of Light in pre-chorus and in IESF, there is also no two guitar harmony in which Dave takes part. TRATB same thing. Death or Glory: same thing: A and J do the harmony before the first solo. I think Janick and Dave do the harmonies in the fast part of The Book of Souls (Adrian rhythm guitar). That's the only exception.
     
    Last edited: Mar 3, 2017
  14. Gk1

    Gk1 Ancient Mariner

    Yep, you are right.

    Janick however did the "guitar follows the voice" thing on too many occasions over the last 15 years' albums. Both on his own songs or other people's songs. Whether this pattern was initially suggested by him or not doesn't really bother me. I feel it is not a good way to utilize a guitar player. On the other hand this gets very irritating (for me) in When the wild wind blows. (3 minutes of my life I'll never get back), and The red and the black. (Bruce just shouting out words struggling while nothing happens......while Janick is jumping around playing childish melodies).
     
    Last edited: Mar 3, 2017
  15. Forostar

    Forostar Conjure the Death Star again

    Or singer. Perhaps he is following the guitar. Basically both voice and guitar follow the melody that was made up. When Janick and/or Harris co-wrote, you can bet they made up the melody and Bruce has to follow that. So let's not turn things around.
    No, Adrian does the higher part. I saw him doing that numerous times. You can also hear it's Adrian pressing the snare like that. Here you see Janick holding his left hand low on the neck and you see Adrian moved up higher.

    No repetitive parts in Machine Men? No repetitiveness in Killing Floor? Sure.
     
    TheTalisman likes this.
  16. matic22

    matic22 H is shorter for God.

    Dave plays about 16 bars of harmony in TBOS (song). Speaking of the new songs I really like what H did on one of the new songs live. I think it should have been done on the album too, but because the album was a bit rushed they couldn't do those little touches.
     
  17. Gk1

    Gk1 Ancient Mariner

    I just described what is happening and how they arrange things nowadays. It doesn't really matter who tells whom to do what....just that it happens quite often in their songs :)

    No I don't think there is anything excessive there. Or just to put it a different way. I don't think that anyone in their right mind would listen to The Wickerman and then to any of the before mentioned songs, and decides that the latter are repetitive.
     
  18. Ruflux

    Ruflux Nomad

    I definitely agree that all the little guitar things H added should've been on the album, but at the same time I think those little additions and all the other small changes they made to the TBOS material was largely because of the lengthy gap between them being recorded and being rehearsed and played live. So realistically even if they had taken their time those things wouldn't have been on the album in any case.
     
  19. Gk1

    Gk1 Ancient Mariner

    Not sure about that. This is open to interpretations. However we will never know as noone would ever ask them.
     
  20. jazz from hell

    jazz from hell Ancient Mariner

    For the most part I agree with Gk 1, especially in respect to the annoying unisons of guitar & voice melodies. But the live-in-the-studio approach is just great; it has served them very well imo, and the result is way more interesting than the usual perfect-and-boring productions you hear in most Metal. The problem is in the arrangements of those 3 guitars, not in the sloppyness of playing, imo. 3 guitars are probably a difficult number to mix as well (left, right, but the middle one masks the other important elements there, like the voice).

    I also don't see why all 3 guitars have to play all the time. It would make for a more dynamic and interesting sound if one or two of them (even three!) took a break from time to time.
     

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