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The Legacy

Discussion in 'A Matter Of Life And Death' started by Anonymous, Aug 30, 2006.

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How good is The Legacy on a scale of 1-10?

  1. 10

    39.4%
  2. 9

    30.3%
  3. 8

    15.2%
  4. 7

    6.1%
  5. 6

    3.0%
  6. 5

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  7. 4

    3.0%
  8. 3

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  9. 2

    3.0%
  10. 1

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  1. Anonymous

    Anonymous Guest

          Tell you a thing
          That you ought to know
          Two minutes of your time
          Then on you go

          Tell tale of the men
          All dressed in black
          That most of them
          Not coming back

          Sent off to war
          To play little games
          And on their return
          Can't name no names

          Some strange yellow gas
          Has played with their minds
          Has reddened their eyes
          Removed all the lies

          And strange as it sounds
          Death knows no bounds
          How many get well
          Only time will tell

          Only time will tell

          You lie in your death bed now
          But what did you bring to the table
          Brought us only holy sin
          Utter trust is a deadly thing

          To the prayer of holy peace
          We didn't know what was lying underneath
          So how could we be such fools
          And to think that we thought you the answer

          I can't begin to understand in all the lies
          But on your death bed I can see it in your eyes
          Just as clear as all the sweat upon your brow
          It really makes sense I can see it clearly now

          Tangles up in a web of lies
          Could have been a way to prophesise
          Unaware of the consequence
          Not aware of the secrets that you kept

          Nothing that we could believe
          To reveal the façade of faceless men
          Not a thing that we could foresee
          Now a sign that would tell us the outcome

          You had us all strung out with promises of peace
          But all along your cover plan was to deceive
          Can it put to right now only time will tell
          Your prophecies will send us all to hell as well

          Left to all our golden sons
          All to pick up on the peace
          You could have given all of them
          A little chance... at least

          Take the world to a better place
          Given them all just a little hope
          Just think what a legacy
          You now... will leave

          (5:56 – Solo: Janick Gers)

          We seem destined to live in fear
          And some that would say Armageddon is near
          But where there's a life while there's hope
          That man won't self-destruct

          Why can't we treat our fellow men
          With more respect and a shake of their hands
          But anger and loathing is rife
          The death on all sides is becoming a way of life

          We live in an uncertain world
          Fear understanding and ignorance is leading to death
          Only the corpses are left
          For vultures that prey on their bones

          But some are just not wanting peace
          Their whole life is death and misery
          The only thing that they know
          Fight fire with fire, life is cheap

          But if they do stop to think
          That man is teetering right on the brink
          But do you think that they care
          They benefit from death and pain and despair


    Discuss...
     
  2. Anonymous

    Anonymous Guest

    Re: 'The Legacy'

    I think this song is about a leader -of whatever sort- whom people followed blindly, and who were led to disaster.

    This dictator sent his people to war, where they were faced with sheer horror -some strange little gas- that made them see what a monster he really is. The dictator is now dying and the people rejoice. They are relieved that his reign of terror is about to end, and only now do they see the complete extent of all the evil he has done. They realize that they were being fools to follow and trust him. They thought him the answer to all questions and the immortal saviour, a messiah to them. Now that he lies dying, they realize that he was no different than themselves, not God-sent, only human.

    The last part of the lyrics is a bit more general, wondering why people keep falling for such false prophets, and why they can't see that they are wrong, even though it is obvious. We keep making the same mistakes again and again because we refuse to learn from the past, or refuse to learn the right lessons from it.

    The legacy of this monster becomes a burden of the people who followed him. After his death, they deny ever having followed him, deny having believed him, and basically deny their own past out of shame. Whether the false prophet's name is Hitler, Stalin, Franco, Mao, Khomeini or Milosevic, it is always the same game. They refuse to deal with this past, and thus can't carry the lessons they should learn from it to the world, thus forcing other people to make the same horrible experiences.

    In fact, the lyrics of this song can be tied to Different World in the sense that if anybody tries to control another person, this is bound to end in a disaster.
     
    contrera likes this.
  3. The Saint

    The Saint Powerslave Staff Member

    Re: 'The Legacy'

    The fact that the lyrics mention a yellow gas could limit the scope: the yellow gas is the famous mustard gas (sulfur gas) first used by the Germans against Canadians and French during the First World War.

    During the Second World War, Germany, Japan and the Soviet Union used that gas again.

    In more recent history, the only occurences when this gas was used are: 1) Saddam Hussein against Iranians and 2) Saddam Hussein against the Kurds.


    Cheers
     
    contrera likes this.
  4. Anonymous

    Anonymous Guest

    Re: 'The Legacy'

    I honestly doubt we can interpret this song to be about a specific dictator.
     
  5. Genghis Khan

    Genghis Khan Ancient Mariner

    Re: 'The Legacy'

    Does anyone find this song to be quite progressive metal in nature?  Not that that is a bad thing.  Just that it strikes me as such, and I think the CD as a whole is closer to this sub-genre than any previous Maiden recording.
     
  6. Anomica

    Anomica Trooper

    Re: 'The Legacy'

    I didn't know Jannick had this in him. WHAT A SONG! And the lyrics... I love the whole intro (or the first 3-odd minutes anyway) and then the riffs, the solo is one of Jannick's best, IMHO. One of my top 3 of this album, so far... :p
     
  7. SneakySneaky

    SneakySneaky Trooper

    Re: 'The Legacy'

    A very good song.  Liked it during the first listen,  appreciated it during the second,  and after that I loved it!  It's a very good song with some folk elements.  The lyrics are great,  and the musical shifts are excellent.  I'm afraid though,  that if it's not true they'll play the whole album live,  this will be a song left out.... :(
     
  8. Anonymous

    Anonymous Guest

    Re: 'The Legacy'

    Funnily enough, this is the one song out of the whole album which immediately clicked into place into my mind and enjoyed without having to replay it a few times.

    I feel this is the most progressive piece out of any of the songs and I could immediately tell that jannick had a lot of input in this song, slight simmilaity to DoD.

    Brilliant and a real epic song, my favorite followed by longest day.

    The rest are still vyeing for my judgement.
     
  9. Anonymous

    Anonymous Guest

    Re: 'The Legacy'

    After “For The Greater Good of God” & “Brighter Than a Thousand Suns” this is the next best thing.

    The opening, which is so troubadour-ish that it almost makes you feel like child in medieval times listening to some prophet about the dangers that a distant time will face. This song has a better “story-telling” feel than anything Maiden have previously attempted.

    Musically, the fusion between the enchanting acoustics and the foreboding electric is perfect. Everything about this song is great and like most things on this album, it begs to be heard a hundred times.

    Lyrically, this song is brilliant and for me, retains the “story-telling” charm even after having heard it a few dozen times!

    My only complaint here is that the chorus is just too good to have been used only once (does it even classify as a chorus then?)

    Overall, it’s a great way to end a fantastic album and is quite arguably the best album-closer that Maiden have ever written.


    [sub]Quoted from my full review of the album that can be found HERE[/sub]
     
  10. Genghis Khan

    Genghis Khan Ancient Mariner

    Re: 'The Legacy'



    I don't think it is a chorus.  I cannot think of another Maiden song that does not have a chorus.  Rime of the Ancient Mariner, maybe, but the original poem is not theirs, so The Legacy is different in that regard.  I like when there is not much repetition.  Repetition does get old after repeated listenings and this song is so much richer intellectually for not relying on repetition; to me it sounds deeper and more chilling than if the boys relied on a chorus.

    This song grows after repeated listenings, like many have said before.  The lyrics before the solo are beautiful and frightening at the same time as is the acoustic orchestration followed by the heavy guitars.

    Although this song is not about a specific dictator, for my own personal reasons I interpret the song to be about Josip "Tito" Broz and other former Yugoslav dictators.  (I know Tito did not use mustard gas or try to cause Armageddon, but most of the lyrics do fit.)  He kept the former Yugoslavia together through lies and deceit.  After he died, slowly, but surely it began to disintegrate. 


    Many still congregate to the House of Flowers to visit his shrine, looking for the so called golden years.  Blind fools!

    Last four verses are about the "vultures", especially Serbian dictator Milosevic.  Instead of healing old woulds, communism helped it to fester and build until the world witnessed the sickening display of violence during the 90s.  Milosevic decided to expand brutally, and Tudman raped his country of wealth.  Even today the scars are clear.  Most people in all republics of former Yugoslavia have no clue about the concepts of democracy or free economy.  Most are still looking inward instead of trying to join the rest of Europe.  Pretty sad.  Nationalism in one of its worst manifestations.  Between Serbs and Croats especially exists a barrier of language that no honest linguist can acklowledge.  "New languages" have popped up (Macedonian, Bosnian) for political reasons.  :(  I better stop before I start ranting too long.  -_-
     
  11. Anonymous

    Anonymous Guest

    Re: 'The Legacy'

          Some strange yellow gas
          Has played with their minds

    Mustard gas is a vesicant (a blister-inducing agent) and not a nerve gas. Besides, combat nerve gases, like VX for instance, actually aim to kill (by blocking acetylcholine receptors) the combatants, and not to 'play with their minds'.

    The question remains: what is this gas? Something out of a fiction-thriller novel? Could be...
     
  12. Raven

    Raven Ancient Mariner

    Re: 'The Legacy'

    It could just be a metaphor.  I suspect something loosely related to propoganda, linking in with what Perun said, but finding some sort of propoganda linked with a 'strange yellow gas' is going to be tricky.  We need someone on the inside of Maiden to interrogate Gers and 'Arry about this...and about who the hell Benny Breeg is...:D
     
  13. gor

    gor Ancient Mariner

    Re: 'The Legacy'

    It does, however, affect the CNS:

    9.4.3  Neurological Clinical effects

                        9.4.3.1  CNS

                                Acute: Apathy, mental disturbance
                                and anxiety states were reported among
                                soldiers exposed to mustard gas during the
                                First World War. Neuropsychiatric disorders
                                including insomnia, anxiety, agitation,
                                depression and acute psychosis were observed
                                in Iranian combatants.
                               
                                Chronic: The above features may persist for
                                some time.

    from http://www.inchem.org/documents/pims/ch ... urological
     
  14. Anonymous

    Anonymous Guest

    Re: 'The Legacy'

    Maybe 'played with their minds' is to be taken metaphorically.
     
  15. Anonymous

    Anonymous Guest

    Re: 'The Legacy'

    I'm not completely sure, but I think I remember reading about a certain "yellow" gas that was used during the Vietnam war.

    I'm going to run a little research, not sure if I'm right on this one.
     
  16. Anonymous

    Anonymous Guest

    Re: 'The Legacy'

    Why are people so obsessed with the idea that this has to be historical?
     
  17. Anonymous

    Anonymous Guest

    Re: 'The Legacy'

    I think it's most probably only a little fiction thought up by 'Arry (or something he read in a Tom Clancy novel!).  -_-

    Anyway, back to the gas. How about Agent 15 (BZ)?
     
  18. Albie

    Albie Keeping an open eye on the Weeping Angels.

    Re: 'The Legacy'

    I must try and find out where I read it, but some poster on some forum somewhere stated it reminded him of the film "Jacob's Ladder". It has been around 13 or 14 years since I watched the movie and can't remember too much about it, but the plot certainly centres around something used in the Vietnam War that had "played with their minds". The link you posted Mav, has a small reference to this movie.
     
  19. Anonymous

    Anonymous Guest

    Re: 'The Legacy'

    My feeling of the Legacy is that it is based on the events of the ending days of WW1 and the impact (The Legacy) it had on Germany afterwards.
    I also want to thank Wikipedia for the mass copy and paste, it saves me from digging through all my reference books.


    Very sorry for this rushed post but am going away for a week and wanted to post this slant before I went away

    Hopefully someone will pick up/grasp this very rough argument and carry it on.
    When I get back will gladly comment on any replies to this post. (If I can get INET access in the mean time may reply sooner)


    Firstly I will deal with the first part of the song

          Tell you a thing
          That you ought to know
          Two minutes of your time
          Then on you go

          Tell tale of the men
          All dressed in black
          That most of them
          Not coming back

          Sent off to war
          To play little games
          And on their return
          Can't name no names

          Some strange yellow gas
          Has played with their minds
          Has reddened their eyes
          Removed all the lies




    The use of sulphur mustard was immediately decried as inhumane and immoral, not worthy of use in war. Yet, by the war’s end both sides used gas routinely; it was placed as a liquid in artillery shells, which were marked with yellow crosses, and it vaporized when the shells exploded, creating a yellow-green mist. Unlike chorine, sulphur mustard is a persistent gas that contaminated the battlefield, lying dormant and deadly for days or weeks after the attack, making the area almost uninhabitable. Despite the innovative use of gas masks, sulphur mustard penetrated through clothing to the skin. Its effects were clearly psychological as well; post traumatic stress disorder (PTSD), known then as shell shock or neurasthenia, was a regular complication for those exposed. The writer Robert Graves a victim of gas exposure, describes the long-term psychological effects: "Since 1916, the fear of gas obsessed me: any unusual smell, even the sudden strong scent of flowers in a garden, was enough to send me trembling."3(p200)

    In histories of the First World War, the effects of gas sometimes have been minimized, but in retrospect the use of gas emerges as a critical element in the war. In the war’s last 16 months, sulphur mustard accounted for over 4086 deaths among British troops, with 160 526 nonfatal casualties. Reacting to the catastrophic numbers of chemical-warfare casualties, the 1922 Washington Treaty re-emphasised the Hague Conference’s earlier ban on the use of "noxious gases." In 1925, the Geneva Convention generalized this to a ban on the use of all chemical weapons. Despite these laws against the use of chemical weapons, they continued to be produced and used in various conflicts, such as those between Spain and Morocco (1923-1925) and between Italy and Ethiopia (1935-1936). However, World War II has been described as the "un-fought chemical war."4(p1) Both sides had gas but it was not used and instead it served as a deterrent, with each side believing that the other might have the more deadly chemical weapon.



    The experiences of the war led to a sort of collective national trauma afterwards for all the participating countries. The optimism of the 1900s was entirely gone and those who fought in the war became what is known as “the Lost Generation” because they never fully recovered from their experiences. For the next few years, much of Europe began its mourning; memorials were erected in thousands of villages and towns. The soldiers returning home from World War I suffered greatly, since the horrors witnessed in that war had never been seen before in history. Although it was commonly called shell shock, it is now known that many returning soldiers suffered from Post Traumatic Stress Disorder.
         

    ***********************************************************************************************************************




        You lie in your death bed now
          But what did you bring to the table
       
    Germany at its knees, Treaty of Versailles



    As a result of the Treaty, Germany's territory was reduced by a third, the Rhineland was demilitarised and Allied troops were to occupy many areas. There were also enormous war reparations to be paid for a period of 70 years (until 1988), although they ended in 1931 amid complicated circumstances. Perhaps the most important aspect of the Treaty relating to the Dolchstoßlegende was the War Guilt Clause, which forced Germany to accept complete responsibility for the war. The Treaty was enormously unpopular in Germany, in no small part because it impinged extensively on internal German sovereignty. The Dolchstoßlegende was the accepted antithesis of the War Guilt Clause, as the latter was in stark contrast to what the population found to be factual.
    *********************************************************************************************************
    You had us all strung out with promises of peace
          But all along your cover plan was to deceive
          Can it put to right now only time will tell
          Your prophecies will send us all to hell as well


    The outbreak of World War I in 1914 appeared to erase many of the political divisions that had existed in German society initially; Roman Catholics, Jews, Lutherans, socialists, right-wingers and liberals were all admittedly overcome by the phenomenon of the "Spirit of 1914". Jubilant crowds gathered to hear the news of the war and a strong wave of euphoria took hold in the midst of public celebration. National pride had shown its potential as a force of unity and cohesion; many considered the changing conditions to be the start of a new age, based almost entirely on an underestimation of the horrors of war and faith in a quick and relatively bloodless victory.


          I can't begin to understand in all the lies
          But on your death bed I can see it in your eyes
          Just as clear as all the sweat upon your brow
          It really makes sense I can see it clearly now

        As an infantry corporal in World War I, Adolph Hitler was temporarily blinded by mustard gas(relates to start of song) during the British bombardment at Werwick, Belgium, and was hospitalised at Pasewalk, Pomerania, where he learned of the armistice


    The thoughts of betrayal and confusion then become crystal clear, he had like many had the following thoughts:

    These theories were given credence by the fact that when Germany surrendered in November 1918, its armies were still in French and Belgian territory. Not only had the German Army been in enemy territory the entire time on the Western Front, but on the Eastern Front, Germany had already won the war against Russia, concluded with the Treaty of Brest-Litovsk. In the West, Germany had come close to winning the war with the Spring Offensive. Contributing to the Dolchstoßlegende, its failure was blamed on strikes in the arms industry at a critical moment of the offensive, leaving soldiers without an adequate supply of materiel. The strikes were seen to be instigated by treasonous elements, with the Jews taking most of the blame. This overlooked Germany's strategic position and ignored how the efforts of individuals were somewhat marginalized on the front, since the belligerents were engaged in a new kind of war. The industrialization of war had dehumanised the process, and made possible a new kind of defeat, which the Germans suffered as a total war, emerged.



    Conservatives, nationalists and ex-military leaders began to speak critically about the peace and Weimar politicians, socialists, communists, and Jews were viewed with suspicion due to their supposed extra-national loyalties. It was rumoured that they had not supported the war and had played a role in selling out Germany to its enemies. These November Criminals, or those who seemed to benefit from the newly formed Weimar Republic, were seen to have "stabbed them in the back" on the home front, by either criticizing German nationalism, instigating unrest and strikes in the critical military industries or profiteering. In essence the accusation was that the accused committed treason against the "benevolent and righteous" common cause.



    Nevertheless, this social mythos of domestic betrayal resonated among its audience, and its claims would codify the basis for public support for the emerging Nazi Party, under a racialist-based form of nationalism. The anti-Semitism was intensified by the Bavarian Soviet Republic, a Communist government that ruled the city of Munich for two weeks before being crushed by the Freikorps militia. Most of the Bavarian Soviet Republic's leaders were of course Jewish, a fact that allowed anti-Semitic propagandists to make the connection with "Communist treason





        Left to all our golden sons
          All to pick up on the peace
          You could have given all of them
          A little chance... at least

          Take the world to a better place
          Given them all just a little hope
          Just think what a legacy
          You now... will leave




    The rise of Nazism and fascism included a revival of the nationalistic spirit of the pre-war years and, on principle, a rejection of many post-war changes. Similarly, the popularity of the Dolchstosslegende was a testament to the psychological state of the defeated, as acceptance of the scapegoat mythos signified a rejection of the “lessons” of the war and therefore, a rejection of its popular resulting perspective




    Left to the "Aryan (golden sons)" people to pick up the remains of devastation and ruin caused by ww1 and the social and psychological impact leaving a legacy which would eventually lead to the outbreak of ww2






          We seem destined to live in fear
          And some that would say Armageddon is near
          But where there's a life while there's hope
          That man won't self-destruct

          Why can't we treat our fellow men
          With more respect and a shake of their hands
          But anger and loathing is rife
          The death on all sides is becoming a way of life

          We live in an uncertain world
          Fear understanding and ignorance is leading to death
          Only the corpses are left
          For vultures that prey on their bones

          But some are just not wanting peace
          Their whole life is death and misery
          The only thing that they know
          Fight fire with fire, life is cheap

      Want the territories returned to them which where taken by the treaty of Versailles   

        But if they do stop to think
          That man is teetering right on the brink

    (Adolf Hitler on the brink of madness)

          But do you think that they care
          They benefit from death and pain and despair

    Germany as a whole did benefit it the 30's and early 40's from the suffering of Jewry and the conquered countries the 3rd Reich invaded, gathering all the wealth from the occupied countries and sending it back to Germany while countries such as Poland and Russia where invaded and the citizens especially Poles, Slavs and "sub human" (untermensch) where subjugated to unspeakable atrocities.

    WW2 was the war to end all wars and heralded the first atomic bomb to be dropped

          We seem destined to live in fear
          And some that would say Armageddon is near
          But where there's a life while there's hope
          That man won't self-destruct
    In the 60's mankind was on the brink of Armageddon (Cuban missile crisis) but this was averted



    Note
    I do know the difference between Nazis and Germans not all Germans where Nazis and vice versa

    (Edit: Corrected any punctuation and grammatical errors- hopefully the post will flow slightly more easily now (Oct 2006))
     
  20. Anonymous

    Anonymous Guest

    Re: 'The Legacy'

    So basically it could be argued that The Legacy is about the 20th century.
     

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