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Seventh Son of a Seventh Son: Full Concept Album?

Discussion in 'Seventh Son Of A Seventh Son' started by Anonymous, Nov 3, 2003.

  1. Nephellim

    Nephellim Ancient Mariner

    [!--QuoteBegin-Maverick+Jan 24 2004, 11:38 AM--][div class=\'quotetop\']QUOTE(Maverick @ Jan 24 2004, 11:38 AM)[/div][div class=\'quotemain\'][!--QuoteEBegin--] Your powers of deduction amaze me!  [!--emo&:p--][img src=\'style_emoticons/[#EMO_DIR#]/tongue.gif\' border=\'0\' style=\'vertical-align:middle\' alt=\'tongue.gif\' /][!--endemo--] [/quote]
    [!--emo&:lol:--][img src=\'style_emoticons/[#EMO_DIR#]/lol[1].gif\' border=\'0\' style=\'vertical-align:middle\' alt=\'lol[1].gif\' /][!--endemo--]
     
  2. tehriahn

    tehriahn Trooper

    Great interpretation, I really agree...
    For the ones who just said "You need a lot of imagination to link all the songs..."
    I want to say that Maiden is not just a band for stupid teens...
    They don't tell in all the songs "yes today, the 7th son eat an apple, green apple etc".
    7th son of a 7th son is so really intersting because everybody has his own explanation, that why it's such a great album.
     
  3. gor

    gor Ancient Mariner

    ok, I had this revelation while I was explaining the ssoass story to my gf, while listening to the album. what's up with these lines?

    The twins they are exhausted, seven is this night
    Gemini is rising as the red lips kiss to bite
    Seven angels seven demons battle for his soul
    When Gabriel lies sleeping, this child was born to die
    One more dies one more lives
    One baby cries one mother grieves


    was the mother of the seventh son carrying twins? did one of them die at birth? if not, what's the meaning of "twins" in this lyric?
     
  4. Anonymous

    Anonymous Guest

    [!--QuoteBegin-gor+Aug 3 2004, 10:25 AM--][div class=\'quotetop\']QUOTE(gor @ Aug 3 2004, 10:25 AM)[/div][div class=\'quotemain\'][!--QuoteEBegin--] ok, I had this revelation while I was explaining the ssoass story to my gf, while listening to the album. what's up with these lines?

    The twins they are exhausted, seven is this night
    Gemini is rising as the red lips kiss to bite
    Seven angels seven demons battle for his soul
    When Gabriel lies sleeping, this child was born to die
    One more dies one more lives
    One baby cries one mother grieves


    was the mother of the seventh son carrying twins? did one of them die at birth? if not, what's the meaning of "twins" in this lyric? [/quote]
    Well this part of the lyrics were what made me think that they could have been 7 twins [!--emo&:p--][img src=\'style_emoticons/[#EMO_DIR#]/tongue.gif\' border=\'0\' style=\'vertical-align:middle\' alt=\'tongue.gif\' /][!--endemo--]
    But i don't think this is the explanation [!--emo&:blink:--][img src=\'style_emoticons/[#EMO_DIR#]/blink.gif\' border=\'0\' style=\'vertical-align:middle\' alt=\'blink.gif\' /][!--endemo--]
     
  5. Anonymous

    Anonymous Guest

    The twins could be the forces of good and evil
     
  6. gor

    gor Ancient Mariner

    perun: yes, but how does that weave itself into the story? I thought of it too...
     
  7. Anonymous

    Anonymous Guest

    They are exhausted from constant fighting and now seek to use the Seventh Son for their respective causes because they believe him to be the ultimate weapon.
     
  8. gor

    gor Ancient Mariner

    nice one. and why one more dies, one more lives, one baby cries, one mother grieves? who dies? someone suggested it was the mother who suicides, but that doesn't stick too well since she is grieving...
     
  9. Black Ace

    Black Ace Trooper

    Gemini is the astrological sign of the Twins' as you might know. The twins might be good and evil, and that's plausable because twins are identical, so the seventh son would break the ballance in favour of one of this powers. The fact that "Gemini's rising" might represent that the battle between good and evil takes place at an astral, monumental scale.The mother that greeves might be god, or some sort divine power, who sees what the world's coming to. The baby that dies is the power wich won't benefit from the seventh sons' powers.
    But that's just my humble oppinion. [!--emo&:blush:--][img src=\'style_emoticons/[#EMO_DIR#]/blush.gif\' border=\'0\' style=\'vertical-align:middle\' alt=\'blush.gif\' /][!--endemo--]
     
  10. Anonymous

    Anonymous Guest

    I noticed theres a lot about the book of life, seven lambs, seventh seal, and the like. That sounds to me alot like the apocilyptic prophesys. I don't really have a good meaning of the album, but I think that we shouldn't discount the ever-heavy apocalypse.
     
  11. Anonymous

    Anonymous Guest

    [!--QuoteBegin-Djaser+Nov 4 2003, 03:08 PM--][div class=\'quotetop\']QUOTE(Djaser @ Nov 4 2003, 03:08 PM)[/div][div class=\'quotemain\'][!--QuoteEBegin--]The album is based on a book series. I read them all and I can't definetly tell you that The Evil that men do and Can I play with madness have nothing to do with it. The 7th son didn't killed himself either but the song is indeed related to the books. I agree with Moonchild however, but Satan is called the destroyer in the books.
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    Well, it might only be based loosely off the books, or they might just be inspiration. Either way, too buch stock shouldn't be put in the books.
     
  12. Anonymous

    Anonymous Guest

    [!--QuoteBegin-gor+Mar 21 2004, 02:52 PM--][div class=\'quotetop\']QUOTE(gor @ Mar 21 2004, 02:52 PM)[/div][div class=\'quotemain\'][!--QuoteEBegin--]i saw an article on the "seventh son" song on www.songmeanings.com which triggered my thoughts. for the first time i am led to believe that the songs are indeed one story, but their order is not a linear narration of the story. Seventh Son should be the second song, and it's lyrics are describing again, but in more detail l what has already happened in moonchild - the birth. 

    on the evil that men do, the son's self awareness happens in the end of the evil that men do, the seventh lamb (the innocence of the seventh son) is slain, and the book of life (self awareness) opens before him!.

    other than these adjustments, i still stick to my story. after all, one can interpret the songs as one likes!  [!--emo&:rock:--][img src=\'style_emoticons/[#EMO_DIR#]/headbang.gif\' border=\'0\' style=\'vertical-align:middle\' alt=\'headbang.gif\' /][!--endemo--]
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    the idea is that in moonchild the 7th son is born, then in track 5 the seventh son of the seventh son is born, so they are in fact in correct order. i don't reckon maiden would have gone to all the trouble of writing such an album if the tracks and consequently the story were in the wrong order.
     
  13. Anonymous

    Anonymous Guest

    I personally think this album is told in flashbacks.
    Moonchild: Refers to the "bornless one," and Lucifer wanting to infiltrate the mothers baby. There are definately twins as shown by the quote "The twins they are exhausted, seven is the night, Gemini is rising as the red lips kiss to bite, Seven angels, seven demons battel for his soul When Gabriel lies sleeping, this child was born to die. One more, one more lives one baby cries, one mother grieves." Thats about as straightforward as u can get to show that one twin died and another survived

    Infinite Dreams: about the Seventh son of a seventh son having visions after he is born

    Can I play With Madness Seventh son of a seventh son visits a prophecy to discuss his visions

    The Evil that Men Do Flashback...to when his father raped his mother shown by "slept in the dust with his daughter her eyes red with the slaughter of innocence. "The book of life opening before me", refers to the daughters pregnancy.

    Seventh Son of a Seventh Son almost where Moonchild left off of SSOASS being born

    The Prophecy: Seventh son of a seventh son tries to warn village of a disaster and fails...And then everyone dies and the village is destroyed because noone believes him

    The Clairvoyant: SSOASS cant control his powers any more which leads to his demise waiting to meet God "the maker"

    Only the Good Die Young: uncontrollable powers force him to commit suicide

    Well thats my opinion it seems stranger than others but to me it seems right o well its a loose concept album so its highly interpretable [!--emo&:yey:--][img src=\'style_emoticons/[#EMO_DIR#]/luxhello[1].gif\' border=\'0\' style=\'vertical-align:middle\' alt=\'luxhello[1].gif\' /][!--endemo--]
     
  14. Anonymous

    Anonymous Guest

    I remember reading an article in one of the hard rock magazines that I used to read way back in 1988 that the entire album told a story. I think it was an interview with one or more of the band members and it laid out the story song by song. Man I wish I had a copy of that article but I can't even remember which magazine it was. I used to mainly read Rip, Hit Parader, Circus, and osccasionally Kerrang so I assume it was one of those.

    If I remember correctly, the story is focused on just one person who was the so called "Seventh Son of a Seventh Son" and being such meant that he was able to see the future. Unfortunatly he was not able to see his own future, only the future of others. Over the course of the entire album the forces of good and evil are fighting to win the Seventh Son and his powers over to their side. Not being able to see his own future leads him to visit a fortune teller of sorts (which is what Can I Play With Madness is about) so that he can find out his ultimate fate. There is a lot more to it than that of course if only I could remember...

    I remember bits and pieces about most of the songs but not the entire meaning of each. I was at one time able to rattle off the entire story to people song by song (thanks to the article I mentioned) but a lot has faded in the 17 years since I read it.
     
  15. gor

    gor Ancient Mariner

    [!--QuoteBegin-IronTaco+Dec 8 2005, 02:21 AM--][div class=\'quotetop\']QUOTE(IronTaco @ Dec 8 2005, 02:21 AM)[/div][div class=\'quotemain\'][!--QuoteEBegin--]I remember reading an article in one of the hard rock magazines that I used to read way back in 1988 that the entire album told a story. I think it was an interview with one or more of the band members and it laid out the story song by song. Man I wish I had a copy of that article but I can't even remember which magazine it was. I used to mainly read Rip, Hit Parader, Circus, and osccasionally Kerrang so I assume it was one of those.

    If I remember correctly, the story is focused on just one person who was the so called "Seventh Son of a Seventh Son" and being such meant that he was able to see the future. Unfortunatly he was not able to see his own future, only the future of others. Over the course of the entire album the forces of good and evil are fighting to win the Seventh Son and his powers over to their side. Not being able to see his own future leads him to visit a fortune teller of sorts (which is what Can I Play With Madness is about) so that he can find out his ultimate fate. There is a lot more to it than that of course if only I could remember...

    I remember bits and pieces about most of the songs but not the entire meaning of each. I was at one time able to rattle off the entire story to people song by song (thanks to the article I mentioned) but a lot has faded in the 17 years since I read it.
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    Damn I wish we could track down this interview! Are RIP and Circus still active magazines? I can't find any websites for either of them
     
  16. Anonymous

    Anonymous Guest

    [!--QuoteBegin-gor+Dec 10 2005, 03:07 PM--][div class=\'quotetop\']QUOTE(gor @ Dec 10 2005, 03:07 PM)[/div][div class=\'quotemain\'][!--QuoteEBegin--]Damn I wish we could track down this interview! Are RIP and Circus still active magazines? I can't find any websites for either of them
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    [a href=\'http://www.circusmagazine.com/\' target=\'_blank\']http://www.circusmagazine.com/[/a]

    [!--emo&:p--][img src=\'style_emoticons/[#EMO_DIR#]/tongue.gif\' border=\'0\' style=\'vertical-align:middle\' alt=\'tongue.gif\' /][!--endemo--]

    As for RIP, the most recent notice I could find of it is from 1996. I have so far not found any notice on the interview, though, from none of the magazines IronTaco mentioned.
     
  17. Anonymous

    Anonymous Guest

    Hi there, just found this thread surfing the wikipedia. [!--emo&:p--][img src=\'style_emoticons/[#EMO_DIR#]/tongue.gif\' border=\'0\' style=\'vertical-align:middle\' alt=\'tongue.gif\' /][!--endemo--]

    I think the band evolved the concept froma a basic idea.
    If anyone of you has read the novel "The Seventh Son" from Orson Scott Card, could easily recognize some signs of this tale in the cover of the album, and in his booklet too.

    The child trapped in the meat sack, hold by eddie's hand, is the main character of the book, in his dramatic birth, when the placenta covered his head trying to choke him.
    The water, all over the main cover, has a link in the book, for even there water was an element always present (and dangerous too).

    The image of Eddie, sitting at a table and writing a book (wich is present on the backside of the cover too), recall the carachter of a travelling storyteller that used to carry a book full of stories, he heard in his wandering. The two candles at both sides of Eddie show good and evil, trying to possess the child, as well meaning either that the stories written in the book were good and evil stories.

    But, beside this, i think that the whole album is totally disconnected from the book. It gave the first idea, the seed from wich is grown this tree. If you read the titletrack lyrics, you can found the main theme of the novel itself, but its written in a way so vague that can be applied to whatever story you want.
     
  18. Anonymous

    Anonymous Guest

    I see it this way, but there are some flashbacks. Also I'll try to place who sings each song (if anyone says Bruce Dickinson I'll chase him and kill him)

    Moonchild (Lucifer): He threatens the SSOASS mother with dooming her and her children if she doesn't kill the SSOASS (she is the wife of the Seventh Son [Not the SSOASS, but the Seventh Son]). The baby is born, and the mother dies

    Infinite Dreams (Seventh Son): He starts having visions about the baby's future, and flashbacks about his own

    Can I play with Madness (Seventh Son) [FLASHBACK]: He remembers when he saw a prophet asking him about the birth of his son. The prophet, on the final line, adresses the SSOASS directly (yet unborn): Your soul is gonna burn in a Lake of Fire

    The Evil that Men Do (Seventh Son) [Flashback]: He remembers when he slept with the SSOASS mother (his wife) for the seventh time (The Seventh Lamb Slain), and he realizes that his son will be the SSOASS (The book of life opens before me)

    The rest is pretty much the same, and the SSOASS killed himself IMO
     
  19. Anonymous

    Anonymous Guest

    I discovered a post about the Seventh Son album on the IMBB, brilliantly written by our resident researcher, namely Gor. As it's on the IMBB, I'm afraid that it'll be swamped by idiotic responses and eventually disappear, so I decided to reproduce it here.

    Here's what the good doctor has to say:

    [!--QuoteBegin-Gor+ the IMBB--][div class=\'quotetop\']QUOTE(Gor @ the IMBB)[/div][div class=\'quotemain\'][!--QuoteEBegin--]Over the last months I ‘ve read a dozen of threads asking about the concept behind the album. Since I think that the IM Commentary is quite off with its approach, I am going to unfold the story as I have understood it after considering the fragmental info that has reached my awareness from band interviews, the symbols inside the album and, quite frankly, what seems to fall in place after a lot of search and discussion on this thread from the Commentary's forum. This is in no way the definitive storyline, because such has not ever surfaced, although reports that it had occurred exist.

    First of all, some general info on the album:

    -The spark of inspiration for Steve was the death Doris Stokes, a “medium” that, for all her powers of foresight, could not foresee her own death. Ring any bells?
    -The source of inspiration, though, was Orson Scott Card’s novel “Seventh Son”.
    -According to Derek Riggs, the symbols that accompany each song (see [a href=\'http://www.maidenfans.com/imc/?url=album07_ssoass/symbols&link=albums&lang=eng#track1\' target=\'_blank\']symbols page[/a]) had been very carefully selected by Dickinson, who seemed to be really passionate with the concept around the time, more so than the other members.
    -In ancient times, the youngest son of a family would usually become a “doctor” (well, more like a “witch-doctor”), since his age would allow him to be able to treat the elder family members when those grew old and weary. That fact, along with the deistic symbolisms accompanying the number 7 in many religions, led to the creation of the belief that a seventh son of a seventh son had miraculous powers of foresight and healing etc., anything one would expect from a messiah, really.
    -The basic element of the story is the battle of Good vs. Evil. The powers of Heaven and those of Hell are fighting over the control of the Seventh Son, in order to use his powers to bend the balance to their side.
    -The order of the songs would be perfectly linear if Seventh Son (the song) was placed between Moonchild and Infinite dreams. It seems that placing it fifth was meant to balance the album musically, simply an attempt to spread the strongest and most grandiose songs of the album more evenly. Thus, my version of the concept is going to follow that order in the explanation of the songs.

    *for more info on the references found in the lyrics, visit the IM Commentary [a href=\'http://www.maidenfans.com/imc/?url=album07_ssoass/commentary07_ssoass&lang=eng&link=albums\' target=\'_blank\']Seventh Son page[/a], which, although in my opinion is way off on the concept’s interpretation, features a great deal of info on the references found in the lyrics (Crowley, Bible, mandrake etc…).

    Moonchild
    Satan is afraid of what the birth of a SSoaSS would do to the balance of the powers. He tries to persuade the mother to disrupt her pregnancy (by eating a mandrake, see IM Commentary for more on mandrake and its scream). With a mix of reassurance and threats (I’ll infiltrate your gratitude / kill him now and save the young ones), he persuades the mother into eating from the root. As the Gemini is appearing in the sky, the mother’s lips come together (as if in a kiss) when she bites down on the mandrake.
    Instantly, Satan refutes his promise and describes to the mother the tragic ending that awaits her. If she suicides, she’ll burn in hell. If she lives on trying to redeem herself, she may ask forgiveness, but he’ll give none (referring to the guilt that will follow the mother on in her life). So, one more died (the other twin), one more lived (the SS), one baby cries (the SS from inside the uterus – the first sign of his powers) and one mother grieves. Satan ends off the song with a warning and a forecasting for the son who had a “lucky escape”. The symbol accompanying this song is the Ouroboros (check symbols link on the IM Commentary Seventh Son page for more info).

    Seventh Son Of A Seventh Son
    Basically a description of the birth of the Seventh Son. The symbol accompanying the song is the Star of Inanna (check symbols link on the IM Commentary Seventh Son page for more info).

    Infinite Dreams
    The SS has become a young teenager, and his powers, of which he is unaware, are starting to surface in the form of visions / dreams. He is frightened by them. The symbol accompanying the lyrics is the Caduceus (check symbols link on the IM Commentary Seventh Son page for more info).

    Can I Play With Madness
    The SS visits a prophet in search of answers to the visions he has been having. The prophet realizes the nature of the teen and thus his crucial role in what is to become of mankind, since the side that the Son will choose to serve will get the “upper hand” so to speak. He is afraid that breaking the news to him would crack him because of his youth and fragileness, so he decides to wash his hands from the SS’s awaking. After great pressure from the SS, he sends him off by repeating Satan’s forecasting from Moonchild: he will end up in Hell.

    The Evil That Men Do
    The young man is ripe for Satan to try to win him over to his side, using the old trick infact. Lucifer sends his virgin Daughter as bait, hoping that she will win the SS over to the Left Side. This is reminiscent of the Primordial Sin from Genesis (that might explain the apple under Eddie’s chest on the cover). Indeed, the SS falls in love with Satan’s Daughter. They make love, but as with the eating of the apple in Genesis, it is this action that makes the SS self aware and aware of the nature of Good and Evil. The seventh son, now able to decide, is paralleled to the Seventh Lamb from the apocalypse, which brings the breaking of the Seventh Seal, bringing forth the Apocalypse. The SS knows chooses his destiny to be fighting with the good guys against Evil and for the benefit of Mankind. He knows that his path is to be a gruesome and lonely one, a winding road. He decides to sacrifice his strong will to be with his beloved in favour of Man, and leaves her behind with promises of remembrance and, hopefully, reunion. The symbol accompanying the lyrics is called “Pelican In her Piety” (check symbols link on the IM Commentary Seventh Son page for more info).

    The Prophecy
    Satan is determined to break the SS. He is preparing a holocaust to be brought on the SS’s village, knowing that no prophet is graced in his own country (Luke 4:24). The SS follows plan, predicting the oncoming disaster and trying to protect the villagers by warning them. Thus, he is using his divine powers as a shield but is met with disbelief. The disaster strikes, Satan welcomes the newcomers to Hell. The survivors, naturally, blame the bad luck on the SS and his predictions, accusing him that he brought down the curse. The symbol accompanying the song is a winged disk (check symbols link on the IM Commentary Seventh Son page for more info).

    The Clairvoyant
    The SS is described in a fevered state. The ungratefulness of Man has crushed his will and has made his self sacrifice seem futile. Having lost his motivation and clarity of thought, he is struggling to remaster his almighty powers, which, now more than ever, seem more like a curse than a blessing. The symbol accompanying the song is the Chalice with the 3 snakes (check symbols link on the IM Commentary Seventh Son page for more info).

    Only The Good Die Young
    In what seems to be a suicidal note, he spits back at an ungrateful, lustful and idiotic mankind and he commits suicide, proving Satan and the prophet right, he ends up in Hell’s fires. The symbol accompanying the song is the alchemic symbol of Sulphur (check symbols link on the IM Commentary Seventh Son page for more info).
    [/quote]

    Impressive! Well done, mate! [!--emo&B)--][img src=\'style_emoticons/[#EMO_DIR#]/cool.gif\' border=\'0\' style=\'vertical-align:middle\' alt=\'cool.gif\' /][!--endemo--]
     
  20. Anonymous

    Anonymous Guest

    [!--QuoteBegin--][div class=\'quotetop\']QUOTE[/div][div class=\'quotemain\'][!--QuoteEBegin--]Only The Good Die Young
    In what seems to be a suicidal note, he spits back at an ungrateful, lustful and idiotic mankind and he commits suicide, proving Satan and the prophet right, he ends up in Hell’s fires. The symbol accompanying the song is the alchemic symbol of Sulphur (check symbols link on the IM Commentary Seventh Son page for more info).[/quote]

    that doesnt sit very well with me, in The Clairvoyant it says he couldn't forsee his own demise...and Gor even said he was in a fevered state, so if anything i'd think he have died of sickness or maybe the stress of everything coupled with his powers just killed him, but to mention him not forseeing his own demise and then him killing himself seems just a little silly, to me it seems more like he's thinking it as he's dying, but i could be wrong...i might have not picked up on something he did!

    also i just kind of realized the idea of reincarnation pops back up with "So until the next time, have a good sin". i love those reoccuring themes..
     

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