Russia invades Ukraine

I am 100% sure, the minute NATO would close the sky and blue helmets would enter Ukraine, war would be over.
There is little to support that hope. Most things point to the oppose. Granted, the Russians aren't interested in an all-out war with NATO, yet anyway, but do I think they would back down if directly challenged? Not much point to it, rather the contrary.
 
Yeah, I mean, I'll admit it's possible that Putin would back down if there was a full NATO intervention. I am skeptical. I think that at least there'd be a fight, possibly even an invasion of the Baltic States by the Russians. And it could get much, much worse, and that's not worth risking, even for Ukraine.

The whole point of NATO is to create collective security that ideally ensures the members can avoid a war with another member of the nuclear club. And it's worked so far by avoiding direct fights, because as bad and horrible as the Ukraine war is, it would be so much worse if one side decided to make it worse.


I can surely bet this: If Ukraine would not given up it's nuclear arsenal, USA would assist Ukraine like they do Israel. Sad but true.
I don't think that's true. I think Russia would be less likely to fight Ukraine, but the USA's pattern of protecting Israel isn't based on Israel's nuke/no nuke status.
 
Yeah, I mean, I'll admit it's possible that Putin would back down if there was a full NATO intervention. I am skeptical. I think that at least there'd be a fight, possibly even an invasion of the Baltic States by the Russians. And it could get much, much worse, and that's not worth risking, even for Ukraine.
I think it's the opposite. putin may invade Baltic States if the West will continue to half measure, continue to show weakness and impotence. If he will hear 'strong condemns' but will not see actions taken to strengthen Eastern NATO flank. That's how things work in real life. Mobs attack loners and weak. if putin will not be stopped in Ukraine, then situation will surely escalate even more.
 
I think it's the opposite. putin may invade Baltic States if the West will continue to half measure, continue to show weakness and impotence. If he will hear 'strong condemns' but will not see actions taken to strengthen Eastern NATO flank. That's how things work in real life. Mobs attack loners and weak. if putin will not be stopped in Ukraine, then situation will surely escalate even more.
I agree with this, but two things can be true at the same time. If NATO directly interfere militarily, that may trigger an all out conflict and baltic invasions, and as you say, weakness also invites it.

We don't have the military industry capabilities we need. There is a lot of talk and half-measures going on trying to increase production, but there needs to be an immediate and massive money-up-front investments for large stockpiles of munitions. We're acting like we should have ten years ago, but that's 10 years too late.
 
Yeah, I mean, I'll admit it's possible that Putin would back down if there was a full NATO intervention. I am skeptical. I think that at least there'd be a fight, possibly even an invasion of the Baltic States by the Russians. And it could get much, much worse, and that's not worth risking, even for Ukraine.

The whole point of NATO is to create collective security that ideally ensures the members can avoid a war with another member of the nuclear club. And it's worked so far by avoiding direct fights, because as bad and horrible as the Ukraine war is, it would be so much worse if one side decided to make it worse.
This is where I am mentally. What’s happening in Ukraine is disgusting. But what I’m terrified of most is another pitched Cuban Missile Crisis, only this time the line gets crossed. Putin might not be crazy or suicidal, but he’s also prideful and won’t be seen as weak. So the question is which of his character traits override the other: how much is he willing to risk to save his pride?
 
I think it's the opposite. putin may invade Baltic States if the West will continue to half measure, continue to show weakness and impotence. If he will hear 'strong condemns' but will not see actions taken to strengthen Eastern NATO flank. That's how things work in real life. Mobs attack loners and weak. if putin will not be stopped in Ukraine, then situation will surely escalate even more.
The Baltic States are Article 5 territory. As long as NATO is not at war with Russia, they're protected by the threat of NATO force. If NATO *initiates* a war with Russia, it guarantees, well, war, and that means that the threat of NATO force is realized. You're right in that if Putin gets what he wants he's going to bully people who aren't aligned but western friendly. That's why Sweden and Finland hastened to join NATO.
 
I mean, clearly, the Putin wing of the U.S. Republican Party needs to be fired. That would go a long way toward helping matters.
 
Absolutely. If there wasn't so many Republicans wetting themselves to suck up to Putin, Ukraine would be far better off.
 
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