Yax
Ancient Mariner
@SinisterMinisterX But anyway, do you really not like QR?
No Prayer for the Dying could have been Amazing
- Thread starter SirRobbins
- Start date
Gk1
Here I sit in a serenade of glory!
IMO TAATG was a first indication that Steve was never gonna be the same again.Since then he completely lost it on choruses.Since then everytimeI hear a new chorus I know it would occupy 1/3of a song's duration.Prime exmple the double chorus on FTGGOG.E erytime we get to the chorus it is as if the cd is stuck or something.The song just loses any potential momentum by repeating and repeating and repeating the chorus.It is so nice to hear the NPFTD album after that.At least the songs freaking flow
Gerald Wiley
Lady don't fall backwards
I have just picked myself up of the floor, from laughing so much. No Prayer is better than Beast... 
On topic, I think Bruce was wanting other things, post son, and I don't rate his 2 90's maiden albums all that high. No Prayer is way better than Fear. I think Fear is probably their worst album.
On topic, I think Bruce was wanting other things, post son, and I don't rate his 2 90's maiden albums all that high. No Prayer is way better than Fear. I think Fear is probably their worst album.
cynick
Trooper
Bruce wanted something different after the LAD tour... and it wasn't something heavier either. IM pretty much always headed on the direction Steve/Rod have driven them into... let Adrian having his way, and he doesn't leave and those 90's albums are way better.I have just picked myself up of the floor, from laughing so much. No Prayer is better than Beast...
On topic, I think Bruce was wanting other things, post son, and I don't rate his 2 90's maiden albums all that high. No Prayer is way better than Fear. I think Fear is probably their worst album.
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Yes, and Iron Maiden is probably over in 1993.
22 The Avenue
Nomad
I'm still absorbing this album, but here are some of my early thoughts.
First, it's not a good album. It's maybe average. I will say though, if this is the "worst" maiden album, well then it just shows how good they really are. It has a handful of decent to good songs. Maybe two very bad songs, The Assassin and Hooks in You.
I agree with many that its biggest flaw is the lack of even one "standout" song. I don't think there's a single 10/10 song on this album. Maybe one 9 or 8. It's like a random collection of B-sides, as well as a poor attempt at emulating other popular, more mainstream bands at the time, like AC/DC or Def Leppard.
That's the last thing they needed to be doing, trying to be "one of those other bands".
I personally don't see how Bruce's voice is "raspy", but I do see how it is different in its quality compared to past albums. Do I like it as much? No. It is awful? No.
The album was deceiving in that the first three tracks are pretty good, but then it just drops off from there and never picks back up. Holy Smoke is silly but fun. The assassin has such annoying vocals (and back-up vocals) that it's laughable. Hooks in You is repetitive and just feels unnecessary. I would describe it as the perfect example of a filler song thus far. It's just there to occupy space and nothing else.
Bring your daughter to the slaughter is also silly and fun, but not quite as good as holy smoke. Maybe it's the fact that this song was on the soundtrack of a crappy fifth nightmare on elm street movie that has a 33% on Rotten Tomatoes. I remember watching those movies as a teenager about 10-15 years ago and I remember all but the first film and new nightmare being awful.
So 3 or 4 good songs, the rest are mediocre at best. There's no "flow" to the songs like on many other albums. It really does feel like 10 random songs put on one album.
First, it's not a good album. It's maybe average. I will say though, if this is the "worst" maiden album, well then it just shows how good they really are. It has a handful of decent to good songs. Maybe two very bad songs, The Assassin and Hooks in You.
I agree with many that its biggest flaw is the lack of even one "standout" song. I don't think there's a single 10/10 song on this album. Maybe one 9 or 8. It's like a random collection of B-sides, as well as a poor attempt at emulating other popular, more mainstream bands at the time, like AC/DC or Def Leppard.
That's the last thing they needed to be doing, trying to be "one of those other bands".
I personally don't see how Bruce's voice is "raspy", but I do see how it is different in its quality compared to past albums. Do I like it as much? No. It is awful? No.
The album was deceiving in that the first three tracks are pretty good, but then it just drops off from there and never picks back up. Holy Smoke is silly but fun. The assassin has such annoying vocals (and back-up vocals) that it's laughable. Hooks in You is repetitive and just feels unnecessary. I would describe it as the perfect example of a filler song thus far. It's just there to occupy space and nothing else.
Bring your daughter to the slaughter is also silly and fun, but not quite as good as holy smoke. Maybe it's the fact that this song was on the soundtrack of a crappy fifth nightmare on elm street movie that has a 33% on Rotten Tomatoes. I remember watching those movies as a teenager about 10-15 years ago and I remember all but the first film and new nightmare being awful.
So 3 or 4 good songs, the rest are mediocre at best. There's no "flow" to the songs like on many other albums. It really does feel like 10 random songs put on one album.
The song in the movie is Bruce's original solo version, not the later Iron Maiden version.
2minutes2am
R101
I think The Assassin is one of the better songs on the album. I don't mind the vocals, and the music is good. (The Apparition on the other hand ...)
Holy Smoke and Bring Your Daughter -- agree that they're good fun, but should have been b-sides; they don't fit with the album or the standard Maiden catalog. Hooks In You also, but it's not as good as the other two.
So, take away those three, and add the better songs from FotD (Be Quick, Afraid To Shoot, FotD, Childhood's End, and maybe Wasting Love) and you have a good album.
Holy Smoke and Bring Your Daughter -- agree that they're good fun, but should have been b-sides; they don't fit with the album or the standard Maiden catalog. Hooks In You also, but it's not as good as the other two.
So, take away those three, and add the better songs from FotD (Be Quick, Afraid To Shoot, FotD, Childhood's End, and maybe Wasting Love) and you have a good album.
2minutes2am
R101
Yes. The almost 10 minute Angel immediately after the short and sweet Futureal hurts the album flow. The single-edit improves the song by removing the slowed-down repetition and getting to the guitar solos quicker; though I still might not put it second on that album; maybe penultimate.
JudasMyGuide
The resident reactionary recalcitrant
Funny, for quite some time I really disliked NPftD, just as I really disliked Killers for some time before that, and today, the two albums remind me of each other (no epic, the “raw” sound, no “show stealer” - the songs are way too equal). I’ve learned to appreciate both, with No Prayer being somewhat higher in my list.
The title track is an absolute highlight for me, I love the song, would love to see it live (yeah, good luck with that) and is probably the only true classic here for me, but Tailgunner is very good too (well, the chorus still doesn’t sit that well with the rest of the song, but I’ve gotten used to it), Public Enema Number One is great as well (although the title is horrid), Fates Warning and Bring get a regular spin from me and Hooks in You is OK in the context of the whole album, I guess. However…
Holy Smoke is their blandest single this side of Wildest Dreams and the mighty force of suckiness of The Assassin AND Run Silent Run Deep combined would be enough to drag down better albums, let alone these two stinkers being positioned right after the middle of the album, testing listener’s patience. The former is just silly (my wife actually misheard the chorus as “I am so sassy”, and I don’t blame her) and Run Silent Run Deep is…weird, and I don’t mean that in a good way. The brooding verses, the not-so-great chorus, the song feels overlong and it’s only four and half minutes!
Also, Mother Russia is bad, baaaad. The vocal melody and lyrics are beyond awkward and the rest just cannot save it. I just don't see why should I listen to Maiden trying their spin on "Katyusha" or whatever.
I for one have no problem with the production (not even knowledgeable enough to know what that actually means; my usual problems with albums are either terrible mastering - hello, DOD - or strange choices in arrangements and whatnot - hello fake keyboard choirs in the middle section of SSoaSS, once I’ve heard you I cannot un-hear you).
I also absolutely don’t mind Bruce’s voice - it’s something different for a change and for example the title track really benefits from this vocal approach.
So, yes, I like it more than NOTB, but it stands no chance against FOTD
The main problem is, that - even with a clear mind - NOTB is one boring album. I like Hallowed, The Prisoner… maybe Children… and the rest is pretty sub-standard for Maiden, IMHO. TNOTB (the song) has no discernible melody and no interesting instrumental section (the solos are OK, I'll admit that) and I don’t understand why do they play it at every concert … oh, because people like it, that’s why. To be honest, the fact this is the most popular Maiden song throughout the world (it seems) baffles me time and again. I just don't get it, sorry.
Yes, if you "ask 100 post-1982 metal bands what album between these two they consider more influential, at least 99 will point out to the TNotB album."
Of course NOTB is the most popular, or most influential, most famous, or most popular in the U.S. or whatever…. I mean, if you ask 99% people about the best/most influential metal band EVAH, they will say Metallica, but that doesn’t necessarily make it so. Well, maybe influential, yes, that you can deduce out of popularity, but what is "influentiality" indeed? The Velvet Underground have been influential, or so they tell me. Black Flag. The Stone Roses and Primal Scream. Public Enemy. Doesn't make them any more listenable to me.
I just don’t understand the popularity of TNOTB. Well, it’s the first album with Bruce, and people tend to prefer earlier input by any band as a rule, so… It has the “Maiden ingredients”, so there you go.
FotD has the most “best songs” out of these 3 albums that have been discussed - Be Quick or Be Dead, AtSS, Judas Be My Guide, FotD, Childhood’s End, even Wasting Love and The Fugitive. It has loads of melodies and a lot of experiments and deviations from the standard Maiden approach, some successful (Fear Is the Key, Wasting Love), some not so much (The Apparition, Chains of Misery). It's a pity few of these songs have been played live!
The title track is an absolute highlight for me, I love the song, would love to see it live (yeah, good luck with that) and is probably the only true classic here for me, but Tailgunner is very good too (well, the chorus still doesn’t sit that well with the rest of the song, but I’ve gotten used to it), Public Enema Number One is great as well (although the title is horrid), Fates Warning and Bring get a regular spin from me and Hooks in You is OK in the context of the whole album, I guess. However…
Holy Smoke is their blandest single this side of Wildest Dreams and the mighty force of suckiness of The Assassin AND Run Silent Run Deep combined would be enough to drag down better albums, let alone these two stinkers being positioned right after the middle of the album, testing listener’s patience. The former is just silly (my wife actually misheard the chorus as “I am so sassy”, and I don’t blame her) and Run Silent Run Deep is…weird, and I don’t mean that in a good way. The brooding verses, the not-so-great chorus, the song feels overlong and it’s only four and half minutes!
Also, Mother Russia is bad, baaaad. The vocal melody and lyrics are beyond awkward and the rest just cannot save it. I just don't see why should I listen to Maiden trying their spin on "Katyusha" or whatever.
I for one have no problem with the production (not even knowledgeable enough to know what that actually means; my usual problems with albums are either terrible mastering - hello, DOD - or strange choices in arrangements and whatnot - hello fake keyboard choirs in the middle section of SSoaSS, once I’ve heard you I cannot un-hear you).
I also absolutely don’t mind Bruce’s voice - it’s something different for a change and for example the title track really benefits from this vocal approach.
So, yes, I like it more than NOTB, but it stands no chance against FOTD
The main problem is, that - even with a clear mind - NOTB is one boring album. I like Hallowed, The Prisoner… maybe Children… and the rest is pretty sub-standard for Maiden, IMHO. TNOTB (the song) has no discernible melody and no interesting instrumental section (the solos are OK, I'll admit that) and I don’t understand why do they play it at every concert … oh, because people like it, that’s why. To be honest, the fact this is the most popular Maiden song throughout the world (it seems) baffles me time and again. I just don't get it, sorry.
Yes, if you "ask 100 post-1982 metal bands what album between these two they consider more influential, at least 99 will point out to the TNotB album."
Of course NOTB is the most popular, or most influential, most famous, or most popular in the U.S. or whatever…. I mean, if you ask 99% people about the best/most influential metal band EVAH, they will say Metallica, but that doesn’t necessarily make it so. Well, maybe influential, yes, that you can deduce out of popularity, but what is "influentiality" indeed? The Velvet Underground have been influential, or so they tell me. Black Flag. The Stone Roses and Primal Scream. Public Enemy. Doesn't make them any more listenable to me.
I just don’t understand the popularity of TNOTB. Well, it’s the first album with Bruce, and people tend to prefer earlier input by any band as a rule, so… It has the “Maiden ingredients”, so there you go.
FotD has the most “best songs” out of these 3 albums that have been discussed - Be Quick or Be Dead, AtSS, Judas Be My Guide, FotD, Childhood’s End, even Wasting Love and The Fugitive. It has loads of melodies and a lot of experiments and deviations from the standard Maiden approach, some successful (Fear Is the Key, Wasting Love), some not so much (The Apparition, Chains of Misery). It's a pity few of these songs have been played live!
stallan
Trooper
I absolutely love this album. The only minor complaint I have is the production, but even it is not that bad. Just not up to the par set by the previous albums. I think the song writing is really strong, it's just a deliberately different style. Hell, I even love The Assassin. The only song that is mediocre in my opinion is Bring Your Daughter to the Slaughter.
terrell39
Ancient Mariner
When I first heard the LP as a new release, it was disappointing due to : 1. Janick's solos I thought were horrendous & 2. the back to basics approach with less synth I found boring. But then...I saw them on the tour and was blown away! It was my third Maiden tour to see and the first time I saw them jump around and have fun (even Dave!) I enjoyed the new material (especially PENO) much more during and after that show and to this day rank this one pretty high. Was disappointed they did not play Mother Russia.
By the way, after TFX LP & tour, I have since become more appreciative of Janick's playing.
By the way, after TFX LP & tour, I have since become more appreciative of Janick's playing.
irelandcalling4
Prowler
Everyone has different tastes, this thread exemplifies that; for me 'The Assasin' is absolutely awful. A silly song with a very juvenile chorus, how did Iron Maiden listen back to this track and think it was a great one to release?^
NPFTD does include some decent stuff, but overall, it's a very poor album; lyrically, structurally, none of the songs I'd say are compelling and memorable enough to be rated against their earlier triumphs. 'Fear' was a slight improvement, but the pair of albums definitely marked a steep artistic decline at the time.
Black Bart
Ancient Mariner
Historically, this album contains the song "No Prayer for the Dying", which is the model that has given way to around 27 variations ("ATSS", almost all of TXF, almost all of AMOLAD, "No More Lies"...)... which in itself is interesting. 
EDIT the good thing about "NPFTD" is that it doesn't have any chorus, which prevents it to be repeated 43 times per song, like the songs it has inspired.
EDIT the good thing about "NPFTD" is that it doesn't have any chorus, which prevents it to be repeated 43 times per song, like the songs it has inspired.
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TheTalisman
Ancient Mariner
My issue with No Prayer is the sound production, it has too much treble in it. The drums and the electric guitars are the biggest issues to my ears.
I think that Holy Smoke from the Wasting Love single sounds so much better than the studio version:
The same can be said for No Prayer for the Dying:
If you listen to what Bruce improvises at 1:37 you actually realise that the melody could have been used for a Blood Brothers-like chorus.
I think that Holy Smoke from the Wasting Love single sounds so much better than the studio version:
The same can be said for No Prayer for the Dying:
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