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'Judgement Day'

Discussion in 'The X Factor' started by Anonymous, Jun 5, 2005.

  1. Anonymous

    Anonymous Guest

    Here, you can read other visitors' comments on 'Judgement Day' as well as post your own. Any contribution to the commentary will be much appreciated, may it be cultural references relevant to the song (links to related websites, interpretations that may have been overlooked in the Commentary, and the like) or personal essays related to the topic of the song. Just be aware that messages that are either off-topic or too wacky may be deleted.
     
  2. gor

    gor Ancient Mariner

    'judgement Day'

    one of the best Maiden bsides ever. In my opinion it should have made the album....
     
  3. TheTrooper666

    TheTrooper666 Trooper

    'judgement Day'

    A brilliant song - would have been worth to be on the album, but probably they made the right decision in leaving it off, because I can't really think of any actual song of the album that could be replaced with Judgement Day.

    Maybe 2 A.M., because there's just one real rocker on the album (Man On The Edge). Nothing wrong with having two rockers [img src=\"style_emoticons/[#EMO_DIR#]/wink.gif\" style=\"vertical-align:middle\" emoid=\";)\" border=\"0\" alt=\"wink.gif\" /]
     
  4. OriginalJud

    OriginalJud Prowler

    Man I just heard this song for the very first time ! I downloaded off Archive.org
    Outstanding track, easily the best song of the Blaze era, clear production sound.
    this song rocks
     
  5. Stevil

    Stevil Prowler

    Why this wasn't on the album I will never understand. Second to SOTC for me the best X Factor song. I don't quite understand how somehow the production is better. I assume it's something to do with the mastering as I find this with the whole MOTE single.
     
  6. MrKnickerbocker

    MrKnickerbocker clap hands

    This song would have made The X Factor a better album, especially if it replaced one of the funeral processions in the middle...
     
  7. Sara

    Sara Not even Wensleydale?

    Why this song was left off the album, is absolutely perplexing to me. First of all, the song's inclusion would have lended the album some much needed balance, seeing as "Man On The Edge" is the only full-throttle rocker on the album. On an album where the bulk of the material is slow/mid-paced, and pondering, this song would have been another welcome speed boost, and helped in making the album more dynamic and balanced. Secondly, the song is amazing, and easily deserving of a place on the album proper. The intense soloing duel between Janick and Davey on this one, is probably one of my fave Maiden solo sections. Leaving this song off the album was a mistake, and a massive oversight...
     
  8. MrKnickerbocker

    MrKnickerbocker clap hands

    Though I don't think the song is "amazing", I completely agree with your logic. It absolutely should have made the cut!
     
  9. Forostar

    Forostar Conjure the Death Star again

    I don't see how this song is more amazing than Justice of the Peace. The latter has (imo) more memorable melodies, especially in the chorus but also in the instrumental parts. I am not particularly fond of the vocal melodies in Judgement Day either.
     
  10. Sara

    Sara Not even Wensleydale?

    That's because you have a different opinion to mine, and that's absolutely fine, but it also means no matter what I say, your opinion will remain unchanged. And that's as it should be. ;)

    Purely from a standpoint of non-inclusion on the album, for me at least, "Judgement Day" has more in it's favour justifying it's inclusion. Like I said, "Man On The Edge" is the only high-octane track on the album. With "The X Factor" being such a long album, I feel having another faster, more energetic track would help in balancing the album, and giving it better dynamics. Justice... is also handicapped by having a part that sounds very similar to a section of a song already on the album.

    That aside, I always get the feeling when I'm listening to JOTP, that I'm listening to an unfinished song, and one that had a part taken from it to add to a song which Steve felt was better and more deserving of an album place. Don't get me wrong, I love parts of JOTP, it's just always felt like an unfinished song to me. And for me, the "by your deeds, you will be known..." part in "Judgement Day" is very intense, and always makes me feel excited and more involved in the song.

    Even someone who doesn't agree with me that the song is amazing, still agreed with me that it should have been included for the other reasons I gave... which I think says a lot for my argument for it's inclusion on the album proper. It's just my opinion though! :)
     
  11. Forostar

    Forostar Conjure the Death Star again

    Well, that someone also agrees with you that TXF is one of the worst (or least good, whatever you wish to name it) Maiden albums.

    That means that despite lacking another high-octane song I think that you two do not appreciate other aspects on TXF that make up for it (IMO more than enough). Maiden has aggressive sides, fast sides, but this is a more moody album with at times haunting atmosphere and some inventive musicianship (e.g. the instrumental part in The Unbeliever is just phenomenal). Also the riffs in Blood on the World's Hands are very intense and aggressive, and so is Blaze's singing on that track, which I find his best vocal delivery done in Maiden. Also there are speedy moments in several songs on the album, although not as fast as Man on the Edge. Still, this is an intense album. I agree that a faster song could give more variety on the album, but I rather focus on quality in individual songs and I don't think that a 3rd rate version of Man on the Edge would enrich the album. Same songwriters, lesser song.
     
    Last edited: Dec 26, 2013
  12. Sara

    Sara Not even Wensleydale?

    Without knowing exactly what MrKnickerboker thinks of "The X Factor", I'm not going to say he "agrees" with me about the album. For all I know, he may think that it's a bad album, which is certainly not how I view the album. For what it's worth, in my eyes, Maiden have never made a "bad" album, just ones are not quite up there with the band's best overall. I actually find some of the songs on "The X Factor" to be amongst the band's best material, so I have a hunch that your assumptions about my opinion of the album are probably a bit off-base. Every Maiden album has songs on it which I love, even the ones I find overall, their weakest (such as "Virtual XI", and "The Final Frontier")

    Just because I feel that having another fast, aggressive song on the album would add some more balance to the album, does not mean I do not appreciate the other aspects of the album. How then, could you explain the fact that I love "2 A.M." (which is probably the furthest away sonically from "Man On The Edge" on the album)? What this essentially boils down to, is that you find "Judgement Day" to be a 3rd rate track whilst I find it to be a great song. I would not want another fast song on the album just for the sake of it. If I didn't like the song, I wouldn't wish it to be included on the album, no matter what style it was. There's no need to turn this into more than what it is. You don't like the song, I do. There really is no more to it than that.
     
  13. Forostar

    Forostar Conjure the Death Star again

    Sorry, seems I made a wrong assumption on the other ingredients (I looked for a reason why it was low on your rankings). But still, I wanted to show (not only to you) that -apart from speed- there are already lots of strong (and imo balanced) ingredients present. Might sound off-base or turning it more into what it is, but at times, I have my ways of changing the perspective (although we were talking about the album as well). Hope you don't mind much.
     
    Last edited: Dec 26, 2013
  14. MrKnickerbocker

    MrKnickerbocker clap hands

    I think that TXF is a weak album. It isn't half bad instrumentally, but the songs are bogged down by poor production, repetitive structures, and a shoddy tracklist. The inclusion of Judgement Day or another upbeat song (not a huge fan of Justice of the Peace, it's alright) would have given the album a much-needed dose of adrenaline.
     
  15. Forostar

    Forostar Conjure the Death Star again

    Repetitive structures in which way exactly? In the way how several songs have similar build-up, e.g. calm intro etc.?
     
  16. Mosh

    Mosh The years just pass like trains Staff Member

    I like X Factor, but I think that repetitive structures is a valid criticism. That was one of the things that put me off with the album at first. It took awhile, but I was able to appreciate that and I love the album now. However, it's probably the only Maiden album where I have to be in the right mood to want to listen to it. Which could be considered one of its strong points I suppose.

    Another upbeat song would've helped, but IMO none of the ones that were left off were very great anyway, so leaving them off was a good move.
     
  17. Forostar

    Forostar Conjure the Death Star again

    Same question to Mosh.
     
  18. Mosh

    Mosh The years just pass like trains Staff Member

    Mostly slow calm intros with arpeggiated chords before guitar melodies and then vocals. Nearly half of the songs do this. I understand that this is common in Maiden's more recent stuff, not just this album, but I remember having trouble stomaching the album at first when three songs in a row (Fortunes, Look For the Truth, Aftermath) did this. It was almost like hearing the same song over and over again. Admittedly, sometimes I get parts from these songs mixed up still.
     
  19. Forostar

    Forostar Conjure the Death Star again

    Haha, I guess you knew which way I was going. :)
    Yes indeed, this didn't change on later albums. Although maybe not as clearly in a row as you mention here:
    I am not so good with technical guitar terms, but looking at Brave New World, do Ghost, BNW and Blood Brothers also start with arpeggiated chords? At least they start with a soft calm intro (calm melodies).

    And what about these three-in-a-rows: Dance of Death: Face in the Sand, Age of Innocence, Journeyman?

    Or: The whole second half of The Final Frontier? (Isle of Avalon, Starblind, The Talisman, The Man Who Would Be King and WTWWB ).
     
  20. Mosh

    Mosh The years just pass like trains Staff Member

    Well yea, that seems to be what people go for when that criticism comes up. I was specifically expecting AMOLAD to be mentioned. :p

    Without listening to them, as far as I know Ghost doesn't, Blood Brothers definitely does, and I think BNW doesn't. I don't like BNW much but the other two are favorites of mine, I suppose those intros don't last too long and what comes after is pretty awesome I think. In my opinion, Ghost is more exciting than any of the three songs I mentioned earlier.

    Face In the Sand has a pretty unique intro I think. The way it builds up is something else too, although it vaguely reminds me of Sign of the Cross, so you might have a point there. Age of Innocence has the arpeggiated thing, but the bluesy solo is a nice change of pace. Journeyman does the arpeggiated chords too, but again, it's completely unlike anything Maiden has done before. Say what you will about DoD, they were at least really trying some different things there.

    Now this is an interesting case. Structurally, not only are these songs quite similar, but a few of them even have counterparts on other albums. Starblind sounds like the spiritual successor to Lord of Light, Talisman continues a trend of Janick songs that started with Dream of Mirrors and has a lot in common with the Legacy, specifically.
    So yes, the repetitive structure criticism is certainly valid here. However, I think it works here because each song creates a different mood and are so different from each other that I forget that each song has a similar formula. With the X Factor, most songs are going for the same mood which makes the repetitiveness all the more noticeable. Don't forget that the first 5 on TFF are also quite different from each other. The result is a one dimensional album (not necessarily a bad thing) that I'm only going to want to listen to when I'm in a certain mood, and another that I can enjoy pretty much whenever I want.

    It should also be noted that I'm biased here, Isle of Avalon is my favorite Maiden song, Starblind would be in my top 10 as well. None of the other songs mentioned here (from X Factor or otherwise) would come close. Well, except SotC, but I only mentioned that song in passing.
     
    Last edited: Dec 26, 2013
    Forostar likes this.

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