Is it me or does the Iron Maiden sound miss Martin Birch?

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I was just wondering ,if there are any Iron Maiden fans  out there that think Martin Birch did a better job than Kevin Shirley,in the sound producing and engineering of Iron Maiden Albums?I've been an Iron Maiden fan since 1985,and have all of Iron Maiden's albums.I just think the sound quality is better on Powerslave and Piece of mind,than the newer albums?I remember listening to Iron Maiden on an old record player and the sound was great,I could here Steve Harris' bass playing and Dave Murray's guitar sounded great as well?Although I'm listening to Brave New World right now and it sounds pretty good.Is it me or not.Should I get another stereo system?By the way I have A Matter of Life and Death,and I'm still deciding if I like it or Love it.Bye,LittleLuie. 
 
Well, I think it does not matter that much if the album feels good. I do not care if bass is louder/softer etc., if the result makes me think "yeah, that rocks!". Sometimes I help myself using equalizer, but usually, I do not change it when switching from one album to another. Maybe I am a cloth-eared nincompoop and I am simply unable to decide which mix is better :)
 
It is possible that there is just more mixing and production in more recent albums, so that there is more stuff to interpret and listen to and this makes it seem less crisp?  I know this is the case for a lament for many an old fan of any older band.
 
I like both, maybe that's because nostalgia isn't what it used to be ;)
 
It took a while for me to get into the Kevin Shirley sound, but I think that he and the band have now developed a great partnership (esp. after DOD). I guess it took a while for Kevin to get what Steve and the guys want.
Actually I like them both, Martin Birch knew how to take 110% from everyone and Kevin has managed to capture that live feel of their sound.
 
Aren't we forgetting Nigel Green? He does seem to get overlooked when talk is of production.
 
Albie said:
Aren't we forgetting Nigel Green? He does seem to get overlooked when talk is of production.
Click to expand...

And of course, the great producer Will Malone! I have not heard a better production... Well ever!

:halo: :lol:
 
Yax said:
And of course, the great producer Will Malone!
Click to expand...
True, but Green's has had more to do that our Will - two production and two second engineer roles over 4 albums.

But can you name the two he was second engineer on?
 
Albie said:
But can you name the two he was second engineer on?
Click to expand...

Not just like that no. Not two. But I do remember he was the second engineer on "The Number of the Beast"...
 
Killers - although credited as Nigel Hewitt not Hewitt-Green.
 
I know personal opinions are likely to be taken as attempted dogmas, but my favourite sound is that on Brave New World.

Yeah, cast the stones.  -_-
 
Brave New World sounds just fine. I rather like the album. I like the more live sound of AMOLAD, and I also like the refined sounding Powerslave, Piece of Mind, etc.

If the tracks all sounded polished up and mixed the same, it would be a little less exciting going from album to album. A little change can go a long way. And there hasn't been anything I have heard that I thought totally misses the boat.

Most bands today simply mix their tracks to be louder, and you miss out on the highs, etc. I think Maiden is right on the money with Shirley. I think they found a sweet spot (current), but if they do record another album or three... someone else might have a nice go at it.
 
I also miss Martin Birch's production on Maiden albums...  The loudness of specific instruments was better, with drums and bass in the front, guitars a little in the back (especialy on SIT and 7SOA7S) and Bruce's voice was also more audible.

Anyway, I like Kevin Shirley's production. I still think Martin did a better job (bass was always there!), but Kevin is okay too. "Brave New World" sounds okay, but the bass sounds a bit too "metallic" and the mastering process created some pops and clicks during some solos (listen closely and you'll hear them, no need to suffer from audiophilia ;)).
Dance of Death sounds terrible... as far as I know, it was not Kevin's fault. He created a rough, overcompressed mix for Steve to listen to in a car. Steve liked it so much, he hired some guy to do the mastering off that copy. I think that's why Kevin decided to produce AMOLAD the way he did - to mix everything the same day it was recorded and skip the mastering.

Anyway, I still think albums like Piece of Mind, Somewhere in Time, Seventh Son and No Prayer (yup, love that album and it's production!) sound a whole lot better than the ones produced by Kevin.

Thankfuly, AMOLAD is not overcompressed (like DoD is, which makes some instruments inaudible when solos and orchestration kicks in), it's a bit more silent (like early 1990s mixes) and does not contain any clipped samples. Still, a perfect production means a -3dB average sound level. That's why I hate all the remasters of the classic albums - they kill all the dynamics :(
 
You are not the only one, but yeah I am beginning to get used to Kevin... he also has been working with DT a lot (not in Score though, by the way i think Score sounds excellent!!), so I must get used to it... but yeah SIT is my favorite sounding Maiden album.... Martin Birch is my favorite Maiden producer...
 
The point of view many people have here focuses on the production, not on the band. That's sad. Iron Maiden are the people who create the sound we hear on their records, not the producers. What I want to say is, there is no "Martin Birch sound" or anything, there's only Maiden sound! The band makes the music, the music makes the sound. And if they wanted to have AMOLAD mixed the way it was, then the band also did the production for that album, so to speak. And that's what counts to me.

I'm in the studio right now with my band and we are still recording (track by track, not live), and anything we want in the sound mixing comes from us. We tell our producer what we'd like to hear, and he gives us our sound. This is what counts. If Maiden wanted the "Birch sound" in the 80s, and they have decided on a live sound this time, it doesn't matter, it's always their music and their sound. You should rather ask, "do you think that AMOLAD would sound better if it was produced the 80s Maiden way?", because if the band wanted a live sound for AMOLAD, they probably would have gotten that with Martin Birch too. It's in their hands because it's their record. Well, at least with a band like Maiden - I can't speak for all the modern pop chart stuff we hear nowadays.

And my comment on the question is, Maiden have rarely sounded better. Yes, on headphones the mixing can get a bit pressing because the guitars scream at you even at moderate volume, and surely you could hear some details better in earlier mixes, but the sound has never been so strong, powerful and impressive. You can practically hear the "dirt" from the guitars and the snare drum on occasions which says "live", and this is the best I could imagine for a band that is so damn good live.
 
Ithink that the production in the albums produced post-Martin Birch is very good. Its different but still sounds very good. I think that when 3 guitars play at the same time it can sound a bit loud but thats inevitable. I found that the vocals were good in Brave New World but were a little too much in the background In the next albums.
 
In my opinion the most important thing is that Maiden are trying different things during the years. Not too different,
but bringing inovations with keeping their autentic sound in the same time,which is not easy.

I love the clean sound of POM,Powerslave,SIM... but I also like this big orchestration sound with wall of music created by the three guitars of the AMOLAD album. As Bruce said, one of the most important things in life, is to avoid to become a parody of yourselfe, and doing new things is the way to do it,being fresh,but beeing yourselfe. :smartarse:
 
ok, lets make clear one thing firstly : Nigel Green never existed really, was the engineer during Birch era, and during the Blaze era he was following Steve's orders

Another fact is, that back to '81, Birch was a -very- someone, but Maiden was just a promising young band.....So they were obliged to follow his ideas

now in Shirley era things are not same.........
when they started with him, they put him some of these big-band-rules, something that definately could't do back to 1981
.....so, Kevin doen't do exactly what he wants, it's a co-production with Steve

we can't compaire Birch and Shirley, because the former is not as free -professional speaking- as Birch was 
 
Just remembered that Steve also co-produced the Rock in Rio and Death on the road videos. I think he managed pretty good.
 
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