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Heard the album... [Thread contains spoilers]

Discussion in 'A Matter Of Life And Death' started by The Saint, Aug 24, 2006.

  1. Mosh

    Mosh The years just pass like trains Staff Member

    I think it's the other way around.

    It's more about structure and style than sounding alike. A lot of these can be loose connections, but that's a good thing. I don't want the same song twice in a row.
     
  2. CriedWhenBrucieLeft

    CriedWhenBrucieLeft Ancient Mariner

    Whit! :eek:

    'Tis a straw man argument you foist upon us, Cosmiceddie; The Legacy is not "utter crap".
    Take it back. At least the "utter"...
     
  3. CriedWhenBrucieLeft

    CriedWhenBrucieLeft Ancient Mariner

    And you too Forostar! The Talisman ain't utter crap either.
     
  4. Brigantium

    Brigantium Work Geordie for hire Staff Member

    I like both for different reasons. It never occurred to me to compare the two :)
     
  5. Dityn DJ James

    Dityn DJ James A coma stole my name.

    I've found the Talisman to be kinda repetitive now that I've been listening to it more. The En Vivo version is a little better.
     
    CriedWhenBrucieLeft likes this.
  6. CriedWhenBrucieLeft

    CriedWhenBrucieLeft Ancient Mariner

    Listen to it a bit less then...
     
  7. Brigantium

    Brigantium Work Geordie for hire Staff Member

    It's quite linear, which fits the storytelling theme, to me. A personal favourite... :)
     
  8. Dityn DJ James

    Dityn DJ James A coma stole my name.

    Well it's not that I've been listening to it too much, it's that I feel that the song could be a whole lot shorter. I mean, I do love maiden epics as much as the next guy, but the Talisman song is a fairly boring song.
     
  9. Forostar

    Forostar Conjure the Death Star again

    Yes it is. Live, it's different to see the band being so much into it.
     
    Brigantium likes this.
  10. Brigantium

    Brigantium Work Geordie for hire Staff Member

    It looks like a real effort
     
  11. CriedWhenBrucieLeft

    CriedWhenBrucieLeft Ancient Mariner

    I'd agree it really came alive, live; epic stuff. And the En Vivo! version is (as has been commented on) practically better than than the album version. (Dityn DJ James --I was just being cheeky! :p)
     
  12. Dityn DJ James

    Dityn DJ James A coma stole my name.

    I was surprised to see Janick taking most of the guitar leads in the song. Janick is one hell of a guitar player.
     
  13. CriedWhenBrucieLeft

    CriedWhenBrucieLeft Ancient Mariner

    Shouldn't really have been a surprise though; what with him writing it. This seems to be the pattern with most of Janick's own material i.e. he takes the main parts/leads.
     
  14. Dityn DJ James

    Dityn DJ James A coma stole my name.

    Hmm, I didn't know that. I don't exactly pay attention to who writes what songs.
     
  15. CriedWhenBrucieLeft

    CriedWhenBrucieLeft Ancient Mariner

    Dance Of Death is another example...
     
  16. Forostar

    Forostar Conjure the Death Star again

    The Mercenary isn't.

    Adrian is the man who should be mentioned when it comes to playing solos on his own songs. Especially on the last album. Lots of H solos on TFF, less by Dave, and the ones by Janick can only be found with a hearing aid.

    3 amigos? 1,5 amigo.
     
    Ariana likes this.
  17. Mosh

    Mosh The years just pass like trains Staff Member

    There's a quote I like. I think it was by Paul Stanley of Kiss, where he basically said that putting an average to mediocre song on an album in the place of a really good song just so a certain member could get equal writing credits is a bad choice and is unfair to the fans. I think this can apply here too. In recent years, Dave has played some really poor solos, both live and in studio. There was a definite improvement on TFF and I think that has something to do with him playing less solos. I don't mind that Adrian gets most of the solos because almost every one is good. With Dave and Jan it's really hit and miss. I don't think it's fair to give more solos to lesser soloists just so that they'll be equal. It shouldn't work that way in music.
     
    Dityn DJ James likes this.
  18. Ariana

    Ariana Purple leopard

    That's the way (aha-aha), I like it...
     
    Night Prowler likes this.
  19. Forostar

    Forostar Conjure the Death Star again

    The Kiss albums are full of mediocre songs. So even if the quote was nice, it didn't work out.
    Back to Maiden:

    Look, I can perfectly understand that if someone didn't write enough (good) songs, that less or no songs from him appear on the album. Powerslave is a good example. No Dave songs. Virtual XI is a good example. Only one Janick song. Does that mean that they also played way less solos?

    No. There's always been some kind of balance. But this balance seems to be heavily disturbed on the last album.

    Do you really think that, after twenty/thirty years, the band finds out that Dave and Janick are not so good anymore? And that in some occasions on the TFF sessions, they would let Dave and Janick record some takes first and then Adrian or anyone else would say: "This is not good enough, I'll do it myself / let Adrian do it himself"?

    Nah. It's more probable that -in advance- Adrian wanted to do all (or at least most of) the solos that eventually landed on the album, so I bet the others didn't even try (were not even allowed / did never record).

    By your reasoning, Dave and Janick don't even need to be in the band: "When someone is less, he shouldn't do something".

    By the way, I don't see how Dave has become a less player, especially live. He still plays with the most ease, and still has the clearest and fattest solo sound. He's definitely at least as much appreciated as Adrian by the live audience, or even the most from all three guys.

    Both Dave and Janick are probably not making a big deal out of it, because they know they can have their bit of fun when playing live. And they know Adrian is a studio "dog" and gladly let him have his way. If he wants to give himself a bigger role on this album, solo-wise, then so be it. Janick and Dave have enough other proud moments behind them, also album-wise. But I, an outsider, was surprised when I heard the album for the first time.

    Others like Mosh might see it as a logical development, since Dave and especially Janick have become worse solo players in their eyes, but then I say: We'll see if this will happen again on the next album. Twice in a row would be something.
     
    CriedWhenBrucieLeft likes this.
  20. Mosh

    Mosh The years just pass like trains Staff Member

    That's true, I even thought about pointing it out in my initial post, but I think it's unnecessary. The quote is still true.

    Solos should work the same way as writing credits. The Janick solos on Virtual XI are pretty good. The Dave solos on Powerslave are awesome. They earn their spots on the record.

    I think it was Dave and Jan themselves that made these decisions. Wasn't it H who decided that Jan should take his solo on Hallowed live? These guys have been doing this for 30 years. They should know when something isn't good enough for a record. It's not like there is some band bias toward or against a member. Hell, Jan played two solos on WTWWB.

    Well that's just not true. Solos aren't everything. Plenty of bands have guitarists who don't solo. Jan and Dave can still write great songs, play leads, help contribute to the 3 guitar sound (which is characterized when all three are playing at the same time, as a matter of fact).

    I've been just talking about the players soloing in these posts, I thought you knew this but now I'm not sure, so I'll point it out. That said, his solos have declined recently, especially live. There are instances in NOTB where he just holds that bended note for most of the solo.

    I'd say Jan's strong points have always been rhythm playing and with an acoustic guitar. I'd also say that he is the 2nd best writer, after H. At least in this current lineup. Dave has always had strong points in playing leads, mostly because of his instantly recognizable tone. His songs are good even though he doesn't write much, his rhythm playing is the lesser of the 3 imo. And as I already said, his solos were great in the 80's, but not so much now. Adrian is my favorite writer and I think his solos are the best and have been most consistent throughout his tenures with Maiden. Only on Number of the Beast do his solos take a drop in quality. I have no idea what that was about. After working with Roy Z, his rhythm approach changed and he's brought something unique to Maiden in that regard. He does great filling the bottom end of the 3 players.

    What I'm saying is that Dave and Jan aren't necessarily lesser players, but they have strong points in departments other than soloing. Adrian happens to be the strongest soloist and thus he is rightfully playing the most solos nowadays.
     

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