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European Politics

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Forostar, Jun 13, 2007.

  1. LooseCannon

    LooseCannon Self-propelled artillery Staff Member

    Yes, instilling fear is literally the goal of terrorism.
     
  2. Dr. Eddies Wingman

    Dr. Eddies Wingman Brighter than thousand_suns

    Watching the news, I do get a bit annoyed that whenever the Turkish referendum comes up, all they bother to say about it is it aims to grant Erdogan more power. Yes, that's what it is about, but very little effort is taken to explain to us how a Yes will give him more power, and which consequences a Yes will have besides "more power to the president".
     
  3. The Flash

    The Flash Dennis Wilcock did 9/11

    The "Yes" vote will approve the following changes to the constitution:
    1. The president no longer will have to pledge impartiality and is granted the right to act as the leader of his political party.
    2. The president is granted the right to sign executive orders without counseling with the parliament.
    3. The president is granted the right to abolish the parliament and force a re-election, without counseling with the parliament.
    4. The president is granted the right to declare state of emergency as many times as he wishes.
    5. The president is granted the right to appoint 4 out of 13 members of the Supreme Board of Judges and Prosecutors.
    6. The president is granted the right to decide on the government budget without counseling with the parliament.
    7. The president is granted the right to appoint ministers outside of the parliament.
    8. The amount of votes needed to send the president to the Supreme Court is increased to "2/3 of the parliament".

    1. The president pledges impartiality. Erdoğan is technically unaffiliated with AKP, prime minister Binali Yıldırım acts as the leader. Though Erdoğan has acted in an unconstitutional manner ever since his election as the president.
    2. The president has no such right.
    3. The parliament decides on its own to go to a re-election.
    4. The president has to consul the parliament to declare state of emergency.
    5. Supreme Board of Judges and Prosecutors has 22 members instead of 13 and the president is allowed to appoint 3.
    6. The parliament votes on the budget.
    7. All ministers are elected parliament members.
    8. You currently need about 1/2 of the votes to send the president to the Supreme Court.

    The changes effectively end almost any legislative power the parliament has and allows the president to have increased control over the judicial system. There are some less important changes as well, like the increasing of the MPs from 550 to 600, but the ones above are the critical ones.
     
    Last edited: Apr 10, 2017
  4. Perun

    Perun Climbing like a monkey Staff Member

    It's my understanding that Erdoǧan tries to argue that the proposed constitutional changes are aimed at strengthening democracy. Now we all know that's bollocks, but I am curious - how does he argue that depriving the parliament of its powers serves democracy? Or am I right in my assumption that he's not addressing this issue and hasn't directly been asked about it (e.g. in an interview)?
     
  5. The Flash

    The Flash Dennis Wilcock did 9/11

    He does address it. He argues that the proposal strengthens the parliament. Somehow.

    When asked about the lack of checks and balances in the new system, he says "People's votes are the checks and balances." Democracy = Tyranny of the majority, basically.
     
    Last edited: Apr 10, 2017
  6. Perun

    Perun Climbing like a monkey Staff Member

    Sounds Orwellian alright.
     
  7. Dr. Eddies Wingman

    Dr. Eddies Wingman Brighter than thousand_suns

    Basically how Mursi screwed up in Egypt. Took a slight majority as a carte blanche to overrun the minority.
     
  8. The Flash

    The Flash Dennis Wilcock did 9/11

    Three days left until the referendum. The polls are pointing to one thing only: Every single vote is going to matter. Barring a surprise result, the winning vote will be in the 50-53% range.
     
  9. The Flash

    The Flash Dennis Wilcock did 9/11

    "Yes" wins 51% to 49%. "No" won just about every single big city: Istanbul, Ankara, Izmir, Antalya, Adana, Mersin, Hatay, Diyarbakır but lost overall.

    Opposition parties demanding a revote with massive voter fraud claims.
     
    Last edited: Apr 16, 2017
  10. RTC

    RTC Libera et impera!

    I'm sorry, Flash. Try and get out when you can.
     
  11. Perun

    Perun Climbing like a monkey Staff Member

    Get the hell out of there, Flash.
     
  12. Night Prowler

    Night Prowler ɹǝlʍoɹԀ ʇɥƃᴉN Staff Member

    He's only 63, dammit.
     
  13. The Flash

    The Flash Dennis Wilcock did 9/11

    The educated cities that drive the country's economy voted no. The uneducated suffering poor people voted no. But the uneducated people who aren't suffering became the deciding vote.

    Democracy used for the purpose of destroying democracy does not deserve the respect of a democrat. As such, it will receive none from me. Especially not if the election board randomly decides to count the ballots without the board's official stamp on them.

    They aren't making it easy for us to leave either though, are they? Secular people from Muslim countries like myself are being lumped in with Islamists throughout Europe. United States were better in this regard, but with Trump that's taking a wrong turn as well. I won't move out unless I can trust my job stability and that I won't be discriminated against (by the locals, not the state).

    This shit ain't over. I love my country, our culture, our language. I could envision myself getting away and settling in, I probably have more in common with the average Western European than I do with the average Turkish person in terms of world outlook. But I can also envision myself feeling like I've cheated the millions of forward-thinking, secular, modern people of my country. As you saw in the referendum, we are not a small bunch.

    Sorry for editing gazillion times, thoughts just come to my head as you can imagine.
     
    Last edited: Apr 17, 2017
    RTC likes this.
  14. Forostar

    Forostar Conjure the Death Star again

    The majority of Turkish expats voted YES: average: 60%

    Some countries:
    Belgium: 75%
    Austria: 73%
    Netherlands: 71%
    France: 65%
    Germany: 63%
    Denmark: 61%
    Sweden: 47%
    Switzerland: 38%
    UK: 20%
     
    Last edited: Apr 17, 2017
  15. The Flash

    The Flash Dennis Wilcock did 9/11

    Here's the map of the referendum. Red is "No", Green is "Yes".

    [​IMG]

    Most Turks in Europe are descendents of people who emigrated from Central Anatolia, Eastern Anatolia and Black Sea regions. As you can see on the map, those are the places that voted "Yes".
     
    Last edited: Apr 17, 2017
  16. Forostar

    Forostar Conjure the Death Star again

    What a surprise. <_<

    OSCE: Turkey referendum 'contested on an unlevel playing field'

    Election observers in Turkey have said that the Turkish referendum fell short of international standards, arguing that the two sides in the campaign did not have equal opportunities to get their messages across.

    International election observers from the OSCE (Organization for Security and Co-operation in Europe) reported on Monday that Turkey's constitutional referendum was contested on "an unlevel playing field."

    Despite the technical aspects of the voting process being well administered, voters weren't provided with impartial information on key aspects of what they were voting for, the joint mission of the OSCE's Office for Democratic Institutions and Human Rights (ODIHR) and the Parliamentary Assembly of the Council of Europe (PACE) said in a statement.

    "The referendum took place in a political environment in which fundamental freedoms essential to a genuinely democratic process were curtailed under the state of emergency, and the two sides did not have equal opportunities to make their case to the voters," Tana de Zulueta, head of the ODIHR limited election observation mission said.

    Election observers in Turkey have said that the Turkish referendum fell short of international standards, arguing that the two sides in the campaign did not have equal opportunities to get their messages across.

    Media coverage was dominated by the "yes" campaign, de Zulueta said, a factor which, along with the arrests of journalists and the closure of media outlets, "reduced voters' access to a plurality of views."

    De Zulueta also said the campaign was imbalanced due to the involvement of leading local and national officials on the "yes" side.

    "We observed the misuse of state resources, as well as the obstruction of 'no' campaign events. The campaign rhetoric was tarnished by some senior officials equating 'no' supporters with terrorist sympathizers," de Zulueta added.

    'Important safeguard removed'

    The observers also expressed concerns about a decision by the electoral commission to count ballots which did not carry an official stamp.

    "Late changes in counting procedures removed an important safeguard," said Cezar Florin Preda, head of the PACE delegation said.


    "In general, the referendum did not live up to Council of Europe standards. The legal framework was inadequate for the holding of a genuinely democratic process," Preda said. The Council of Europe is a 47-member body, of which Turkey is a member, which promotes human rights and the rule of law and is separate from the European Union.

    A preliminary vote count showed Turkey voting 51.4 percent in favor of changing the country's constitution to give the president vastly expanded powers. The "yes" vote was boosted by support from Turkish voters living abroad, especially in Germany, Austria, Belgium and the Netherlands.

    Turkey has been under a state of emergency since a failed coup last July, Erdogan advocated extending it after the results of the referendum were published. The main opposition CHP, meanwhile, has called for a recount.
     
  17. Ariana

    Ariana Purple leopard

    In Bulgaria, 71% of Turks voted No.
     
    Forostar likes this.
  18. CriedWhenBrucieLeft

    CriedWhenBrucieLeft Ancient Mariner

    Snap UK general election announcement?
     
  19. Night Prowler

    Night Prowler ɹǝlʍoɹԀ ʇɥƃᴉN Staff Member

    Nah, it's about Wenger's contract extension.
     
    CriedWhenBrucieLeft likes this.
  20. CriedWhenBrucieLeft

    CriedWhenBrucieLeft Ancient Mariner

    UK general election: 8th June. BBC has already rolled out John Curtis...
     

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