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Dance Of Death - the album

Discussion in 'Dance Of Death' started by NavigatorsSon, Oct 26, 2011.

  1. Kill Devil Hill

    Kill Devil Hill 2deep4u

    Brave New World has no fillers. The Mercenary and The Fallen Angel are great tunes. Dance of Death, however, has mediocre tunes (Wildest Dreams, Montsegur, Face in the Sand) and poor tunes (Age of Innocence and New Frontier).

    I do quite like Gates of Tomorrow and No More Lies, and I love Paschendale, Rainmaker, Dance of Death, and Journeyman, but that's only a bit more than half the album.

    To be fair, though, I haven't heard Face in the Sand and New Frontier in a long time, and they could be better than I remembered them. I listen to them later today.
     
  2. Crimson Idol

    Crimson Idol Caveman

    On that I would disagree, neither album has filler for me. But Wildest Dreams is lower than Wickerman. BNW is simply more consistent.
     
  3. 425

    425 Starblind

    See, I simply disagree with you on most of this. The Mercenary and The Fallen Angel both are very repetitive and feel like they are just to make the song long enough (The Mercenary to a worse degree, I do give The Fallen Angel credit for having 3 solos). I agree that Wildest Dreams is mediocre, though I would place it above The Mercenary and near to but above The Fallen Angel.

    The other two you brought up as mediocre are both songs that I love quite a bit. Face in the Sand has a great atmosphere, excellent lyrics, and is overall just a great, desperate sounding song (which fits it to the lyrics). Probably top 50 for me (I don't have a ranking written down, but it's 3rd on the album for me behind the obvious two). As for Montségur, this is one that I feel gets maligned far too often, it's probably not top 50 for me but not too far out either. Once again, the lyrics are quite good except the repetitive chorus, which is not nearly as annoying to me as The Mercenary's repetitive chorus, and the vocal melodies on the verse that includes the line "laugh at the darkness and in god we trust" are simply divine in my opinion. I have moments where I almost understand the complaint of it sounding too happy, but I fall short of agreeing, partly because overall, the song is way heavier than most Maiden songs.

    Once again, I don't agree that Age of Innocence is poor. I think that while there's nothing too special about it, it is a fairly average mid-length Maiden song, with a heavier mid section which I personally like, though I've seen people say they don't (the part where Bruce uses raspy vocals, "you can't protect yourself…"), and lyrics that are relevant and though you may personally disagree with them, not poorly written.

    New Frontier is the worst song on the album, but it has a catchy riff and vocal melodies that I like. I certainly would rather have New Frontier than The Mercenary, and it's close to The Fallen Angel, probably just a bit below.

    I do like Gates of Tomorrow, though I think it is too unremarkable to get a high ranking relative to the album. I used to like No More Lies a lot, but the over-repetition (in my opinion) of the chorus has dragged it down a bit for me, though I still like it. Paschendale, Rainmaker, Dance of Death and Journeyman are unquestionably classics.

    Definitely give Face in the Sand another fair listen, and think about the overall message of the lyrics when considering the music and the tone of the song.

    For those who are curious, since I've commented on the majority of the songs on the album now, here is my ranking of Dance of Death songs:

    1. Paschendale - obvious classic
    2. Dance of Death - another classic, I had this above PFD for a short time but I corrected my heresy
    3. Face in the Sand - I find myself struggling to comprehend the idea of this song as anything but excellent and atmospheric
    4. Journeyman - great change of pace, executed well
    5. Montségur - heavy song with good lyrics and vocals
    6. Rainmaker - the 2000s version of a classic Maiden rocker
    7. The Age of Innocence - not as bad as people think, interesting middle section, nothing else remarkable
    8. No More Lies - repetitive chorus but good verses
    9. Gates of Tomorrow - has good parts but the whole is not excellent
    10. Wildest Dreams - a bit cheesy, but I personally like this variety of cheese
    11. New Frontier - not anything special besides catchiness
     
  4. Kill Devil Hill

    Kill Devil Hill 2deep4u

    I'll write a detailed response after I'm done with the movie I'm watching. :)
     
  5. mckindog

    mckindog Living for Sanctuary from the law Staff Member

    To me it has four great songs. If I'm feeling generous they're all 10s.
    Paschendale: classic, elite Maiden
    Dance of Death: right up there
    Rainmaker: as good a "single" as the band has done
    No More Lies: atmospheric, powerful, the repetition doesn't both me at all.

    Journeyman is just a notch below those, but still a fantastic song. Eight or nine.

    Age of innocence is a good, underrated song with a poignant melody on the chorus. Seven or eight.

    Face in the Sand (great intro, cool atmosphere) and Montsegur (rippingly heavy) start out really strong but fail to sustain what they promise - flawed but ultimately worthwhile. Seven

    New Frontier, Gates, Wildest Dreams are all inoffensive melodic rockers. I quite like the former despite the fact it's rather ordinary. I am less forgiving of the generic nature of Wildest Dreams maybe simply because of the prominence the band awards it. Gates is somewhere in between. Sixes or sevens.
     
  6. Forostar

    Forostar Conjure the Death Star again

    "Somehow" I don't think you would apply this same reasoning to No Prayer for the Dying.

    Not really. When you read my commentaries on the individual songs you'll see what I do or don't like about them. Well argued (from my perspective), and very fair.

    I like Age of Innocence. I like Gates of Tomorrow. Recently I have come to appreciate Montsegur and New Frontier more than in the beginning. Dance of Death is excellent, so is Paschendale. Rainmaker is very strong as well. Journeyman is not brilliant but still decent.

    Face in the Sand has a very captivating intro. The problem of this song I find the last couple of minutes in which certain parts are repeated too often. The total result I find too monotonous, really. The intro and the solo save it a bit, but in total this is surely a below average song. Another song which lacks immensely in variety is No More Lies. Beautiful atmospheric intro, but then the whole song goes on and on, feels constantly the same.
    As you might have read, I feel that Wildest Dreams has the worst chorus in the entire catalog (though The Talisman comes pretty close).

    The biggest problems I have with Brave New World is the stealing for The Nomad, the lack of variation in The Thin Line, and the repetition in Out of the Silent Planet. I also don't find The Fallen Angel that excellent.

    I really like The Mercenary, though. I find the song less repetitive than the two closing songs. Yes the lines are repeated quite a few times, but when we look at the length of these parts, it isn't that terrible. What we should not forget is the fantastic instrumental midpiece. Beautiful Dave solo, and the harmony is also a great treat. The main riff (coming from a Janick Gers idea from 1981) is pretty cool. I think that a song with this kind of tempo and such heaviness is pretty rare for Maiden.
     
  7. Crimson Idol

    Crimson Idol Caveman

    Reading back over my essay analysis on the other page, things have changed quite a bit. Paschendale is 5th on the album for me now. It's all about moods at the time though.... right now I'd say my album order is:

    DoD, Face in the Sand, Age of Innocence, Journeyman, Paschendale, No More Lies, Montsegur, New Frontier, Wildest Dreams, Gates of Tomorrow, Rainmaker.

    But I adore each song in it's own right.
     
  8. Kill Devil Hill

    Kill Devil Hill 2deep4u

    So I lied and didn't reply after my movie.

    The Mercenary is repetitive, but it doesn't quite get to that point where you wanna put a bullet in your skull a la The Angel and the Gambler. For me, it's just one line too long maybe. No big deal. And the "Nowhere to run, nowhere to hide" is so menacing. It's a nice contrast with the more upbeat verses. It also has cool lyrics. I particularly like the line "Iron will, iron fist, how could it have come to this?" It introduces a new layer to the song. The whole song is just about how the mercenary lives, but now we see a hint of something else. What is it? Regret? Looking back on a time before this? My imagination just runs away at that point. Then in the last bout of "Show them no fear, show them no pain," Bruce sings less aggressively. He sounds somehow sad here. Is it the regret seeping in at last? I'm probably looking a lot into the song, but it just tells a story for me with such few words. Not to mention the midpiece. What a cool solo. This entire album was Dave's best, in my opinion. This is probably the only album with Adrian on it where I care far more about Dave.

    The Fallen Angel really isn't that repetitive. It's no more repetitive than Run to the Hills. At least lyrically. Maybe melodically. What grips me about this track is almost solely Bruce's vocals. I adore the harmonies, and every time I listen to it, I pick up on a different emotion. That's the best part for me. I get something new with every listen. Plus, the solos are some of the best from the album. All of them. Admittedly, the lyrics don't do much for me in this tune. It's more sonic for me.

    My only problem with Montsegur is that it's so, I don't know, happy? It sounds so feel-good when the subject matter really isn't, and I really doubt the intention was for it to sound as happy as it does. Otherwise, I like the song quite a bit. The happy element is what made me push it down to the mediocre category, but I could've swung that song either way.

    I remembered liking the first half of Face in the Sand a lot (in fact, I remember thinking it was the best Maiden intro since Afraid to Shoot Strangers), but the ending didn't do much for me.

    I just relistened to it. I was definitely being unfair in my analysis. I really like the first 4 minutes of the song and really dislike the rest. So while I wouldn't say it's among the best (and certainly wouldn't put it in the top 3), it is a lot better than I remembered it. I'd consider bumping it from the mediocre category. I think the issue is that I dislike the last 2 minutes so much that I forget about how good the first 4 minutes are.

    Once again, the lyrics aren't the issue for me. I don't even remember what the song is about. Maybe I should reread the lyrics. I dislike Bruce's vocals, I dislike the way the guitar lines up with the vocals in the intro, and I really, really dislike the chorus. Admittedly, it's not as happy as I remembered it being, but I still find it absolutely cheesy. The guitar underneath the verses is pretty cool. The biggest issue I have with this tune is Bruce's phrasing. It's my least favorite phrasing from him ever.

    The last two verses I completely did not remember. Those were great! Some of the heaviest stuff Maiden's ever done! They almost make up for the awful chorus.

    My problem with New Frontier is that the guitar and vocals don't match up. I like them separately (particularly the midpiece -- it's one of my favorite moments in Maiden's catalog), but not together. And I dislike the chorus once again.

    Now that I've re-listened to the whole album specifically to reply to this post, I'll post my list, too.

    1. Paschendale
    2. Rainmaker
    3. Dance of Death
    4. Journeyman
    5. Gates of Tomorrow
    6. No More Lies
    7. Face in the Sand
    8. Montsegur
    9. Wildest Dreams
    10. New Frontier
    11. Age of Innocence (Now that I know about those last two verses, it might flop with New Frontier)
     
  9. Great Sage

    Great Sage Invader

    I don't get the dislike for Montsegur. I think it's the best song on the album. By the same token, Paschendale does nothing for me.

    I have to say though, that I bring this album out of retirement once every 2 or 3 years and each time I am surprised at how poor I find it.
     
    Forostar likes this.
  10. Forostar

    Forostar Conjure the Death Star again

    "Bring out of retirement"!
    I like that phrasing. :)
     
  11. The Flash

    The Flash Dennis Wilcock did 9/11

    One masterpiece : Paschendale
    One fantastic song : Dance of Death
    Two great songs : Rainmaker, No More Lies
    One very good song : Face in the Sand
    One good song : Journeyman
    One mediocre song : Montsegur
    Three fillers : Gates of Tomorrow, New Frontier, Age of Innocence
    One horrible song : Wildest Dreams

    That's how I see Dance of Death. I think the album would be a lot better if it had 8 tracks rather than 11.

    By the way on the BNW vs. DOD issue, I've been listening to the band since early 2009 so I wasn't there when all the reunion stuff happened. And I always considered BNW to be a far superior album to DOD. It lacks a masterpiece, but it has lots of great and very good songs and also has less fillers.
     
  12. Mosh

    Mosh The years just pass like trains Staff Member

    That's close to how I see it, but I have a few differences.

    One masterpiece : Paschendale
    One fantastic song : Dance of Death
    Two great songs : Rainmaker, Journeyman
    One very good song : Face in the Sand
    Two good songs: No More Lies, Montsegur
    One mediocre song : Wildest Dreams
    Three fillers : Gates of Tomorrow, New Frontier, Age of Innocence

    I think Montsegur is a lot better than most people say. It's a fun rocker.
     
  13. dickinson1978

    dickinson1978 Trooper

    So in the other post you call me troll for saying more or less the same you say here?
     
  14. Kill Devil Hill

    Kill Devil Hill 2deep4u

    I asked if you were trolling partly because you called the album a "BIG SHIT" (which, though DOD is my least favorite Maiden album, it's still quite good by normal standards) and mostly because you called the album art the "worst album art ever" (seeing as there is much worse album art out there). Usually when people troll they hyperbolize, so I asked if you were trolling because of all the hyperboles.

    But since you're not, no harm done. I agree on some tunes, though I adore Journeyman and Gates of Tomorrow. :p
     
  15. dickinson1978

    dickinson1978 Trooper

    Please post me a cover where there are some (put a word,i dont find the correct) figures,and a dwarf? riding a cut-paste dog ( he is in the midle).i tell you ,and its true that in 2003 when the album was ready to be on the stores,the people in internet,and some webs said that the cover was a fake! a joke of the band and the real cover was the background( the background could be and amazing cover!).
     
  16. Kill Devil Hill

    Kill Devil Hill 2deep4u

    I'm saying that there are different covers that are worse. For instance, I find these covers far worse than DOD's:

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
  17. The Flash

    The Flash Dennis Wilcock did 9/11

    Oh man I wish you didn't post that Cannibal Corpse cover. I'm trying to avoid that kind of stuff. :bigsmile:
     
  18. 425

    425 Starblind

    Yeah, that was pretty alarming. I question the value of that kind of music.
     
  19. The Flash

    The Flash Dennis Wilcock did 9/11

    I've heard that there more incredibly awful album covers on Black Metal & Death Metal scene. Including corpses (real ones), cut, torn apart body parts and stuff. Like I've said, I'm trying my best to avoid them.
     
  20. Kill Devil Hill

    Kill Devil Hill 2deep4u

    I don't think you should necessarily avoid them. While I'm not privy to that type of music, I know lots of people who like it, and they're perfectly normal. They always say they feel rejuvenated after listening to bands like Cannibal Corpse, as if they released all their rage and all their demons through listening to CC.

    But I understand if you give their music a shot and dislike it. I personally find it difficult to sit through guttural vocals hard as I try, but I can see why that type of music is necessary.

    I'm kind of surprised you guys are most offended by the CC cover. I personally found the Boned and the Wally artwork far worse. :p
     

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