Classical music thread

That... Was... AWESOME! This is my new favorite thread. Most of you are probably very familiar with this next one. Ever since Natalie's post I can't stop thinking abou it. It is off of Therion's Serius B and by far one of my favorites. LOVE the church organ at the start, the relaxed atmosphere that follows, the slow build and the mandolins at the end are just kick ass. So, for a little "modern" I give thee the Wonderous World of Punt:

 
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Dmitri Shostakovich was the biggest composer in the Soviet Union, basically the unofficial state composer. Also highly respected worldwide for his innovative music. However, he'd been on Stalin's shit-list for many years, and Shosty - who lived in Leningrad - needed a hit. Then, the Nazis seiged.

Is it me, or do the Russians compose their most inspired music when somebody invades them? When that happens, they just chunk out some of the best stuff there's ever been:


And when there's peace, they write music about... pictures of an exhibition. Seriously. :huh:

(Kidding of course, I like Mussorgsky)
 
I think that can be said for just about anybody, it is not the invasion, but the intense emotion that brings in people and the creative types can channel it into great work, be it music, literature or painting.
 
P.S starting at the 4:07 mark, that section is the background music for the computer version of Risk II lol.

5:52, the Beatles use that trumpet in All you Need is Love.
 
Since we had Shostakovich, we need Prokofiev as well. His well-known ballet Romeo and Juliet has been one of my favourite pieces of music for almost literally as long as I can remember. Starting from the beginning:

 
I have to say I did not. It has been AGES since I have listened to La Marsellesa.... I know I should know, thanks for the refresher.
 
Since this is sort of on topic, the Marseillaise is of course a product of the 18th century, if I recall correctly a battle hymn of revolutionaries from Marseilles. Not to mention that it features prominently in one of my favourite film scenes ever:


(The song the nazis are singing, incidentally, is a German patriotic song called Die Wacht am Rhein. They chose that over the then-German national anthem because that was copyrighted. You know, in the country America was at war with at the time. In any case, despite the German and French sung with an American accent, this is one of the greatest scenes ever.)

But the French revolution was of course a major inspiration for all the artists and musicians at the time. Beethoven's Third, the Eroica, was later dedicated to Napoleon Bonaparte. Just as Beethoven had finished it, he received news that Napoleon had crowned himself emperor of France, so he furiously erased the dedication from his sheets. Still, I think this is Beethoven's strongest symphony, and my favourite part is the Funeral March:

 
So EVERYBODY and their mother are familiar with Vivaldi's Four Seasons, however of the four people usually only know Spring. Well, that all good and nice, but Summer is where it's at. This is a monster piece.
 

Most of the arguments about Wagner's work turn into an anti-semitism discussion. But I really admire his work and I do believe his works are a huge influence on progressive rock (which is my favorite genre of music) or progressive music in general.

Awesome piece with a powerful, heavy (sort of) atmosphere.
 
So I spent some time listening to Wagner. I know how popular he is, I know how everybody loves him, and therefore, I am aware that I will come across as snobbish, but I have to get this out:

He is so damn primitive.
 
I haven't really checked out his work myself, but I always heard he was very epic and bombastic among his peers, so I'll throw in that epic and bombastic metal such as power metal and Manowar, which are also primitive in many ways, should also be mentioned.
 
Joey DeMaio has always said that Wagner was his primary source of inspiration. Nothing new here.

The problem I have isn't that he is "epic" or "bombastic" or whatever other meaningless adjectives you throw out; I love Dvorak, and he's as "epic" and "bombastic" as it gets. The problem I have is that Wagner's work takes no effort to appreciate. With somebody like Beethoven or Berlioz, the music is demanding. It needs your awareness and concentration in order to unfold properly. Sure, the famous motif from Beethoven's fifth jumps right at you, but you need to get more involved with the symphony to find its actual meaning. It's music that challenges your intellect. With Wagner, I don't feel that my intellect is challenged, he goes straight at sentiments and emotion. The music tells you to feel happy, sad, triumphant or defeated. It's not that simple with other composers.
 
With Wagner, I don't feel that my intellect is challenged, he goes straight at sentiments and emotion.
On the other hand, emotions can also be challenged.

But indeed, power/epic/bombastic metal does what you described in the quote so I agree more with you than with Flash because I often find that complexity in progressive music is more demanding than the beforementioned metal that goes straight to sentiment and emotion.
 
I wasn't talking about metal, though. The types of classical music and those of metal can't be compared. Even though metal takes a lot of inspiration from classical music, it's still something different. The relationship between Manowar and Opeth are different than that between Beethoven and Wagner. Wagner took something sophisticated and made it primitive in my ears, while Opeth took something that was generally considered - justly or unjustly - to be primitive and turned it into something sophisticated. It's just two completely different things.
 
I was just getting deeper into the aspect of being challenged when listening to music. Complexity is one the factors that plays a role with me, and I don't think I would make separations between different forms of music. Just my own 2 cents.
 
My point is, there are a lot of romantic composers I like. Tchaikovsky and Dvorak are probably my absolute favourite composers ever. They wrote a lot of music that was bombastic, epic, loaded with pathos, and with emotional appeal; but that was not all they were about. They were concerned with speaking to you and telling you something. Not just telling you a story, but telling you what is behind it, what things are about. Wagner, on the other hand, is just cheap. He made music that is so loud you can't hear what you're thinking and walk out stunned and dazzled, but not richer in any way. That's an artistic cop-out, because he didn't have anything valuable to say, and yet, people cheer for him more than for others.
 
This doesn't surprise me at all, and I completely agree with your assessment mate. While there are a few pieces of Wagner's that I really do like, there is nothing that I love. Even pieces of Beethoven or Bach or Mozart that I am not as big a fan of I can listen to in more depth. Wagner uses very easily noticable themes and pretty much hits you in the face with them. It's simple. Epic, yeah ,but epically simple. No wonder Hitler loved it.
 
Wagner's music isn't supposed to challenge your intellect. I don't know how not acheiving something you weren't trying to achieve in the first place equals "primitive" or "an artistic cop-out". The complexities in Wagner's music lie in the subtleties, like texture and harmonic structure. It serves a different purpose than Beethoven's music, for example. I prefer Tchaikovsky and Dvorak too, but I listen to them for different reasons.

The relationship between Beethoven and Wagner actually is pretty close to that of Manowar and Opeth. In other words, why would you compare them in the first place?
 
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