USA Politics

I'm trying to rationalise what is happening in Ferguson. How fragile must civilisation be if one wrong act can trigger so much violence and naked savagery? How close is man to beast? Can this happen in Europe?
 
Racism is a bigger or at least more sensitive issue in the States.

I am actually trying to rationalize why the police man is not even charged with a crime. I don't find the reactions that strange because it all seems so unfair. Of course I don't promote violence but the mistrust in law enforcement must have reached its maximum by now. This is pure despair and frustration.
 
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Forostar said:
Racism is a bigger or at least more sensitive issue in the States.
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Eh. I doubt that if you went to Aulnay-sous-Bois or Luton and stayed there for a week, you'd come out saying the same thing. Fact is, such things have happened in Europe. I should have said "Germany" instead of "Europe", because that's what I'm afraid of the most right now.

Forostar said:
I am actually trying to rationalize why the police man doesn't get prosecuted. I don't find the reactions that strange.
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The most alarming thing is that these riots are a response to a judgement that has not been critically evaluated. What if the judgement reflects what the jury thought? That they really did evaluate all evidence in a neutral manner and came to their decision based on that? In America, a policeman has to expect that any random person has a gun in his pocket, so there may be a policy involving pre-emptive shots. It's unimaginable in Europe and I hope it will never happen here, but it may have been a perfectly justifiable and legal action by Missouri law. That's what troubles me here: The answer to this isn't a debate. It isn't a call to revision. The answer is violence and destruction. This reaction should be strange, shocking, appalling and deeply troubling in a democracy. But we already expected them. This doesn't have anything to do with a civilised society, and there is something deeply wrong within all of this if acts of violence and destruction get defended, no matter who committed them.
 
I think that the law and the way this case is handled hasn't much to do with a civilized society.
It doesn't fit with how you deal with people. I say: revision of the law.
 
Everyone made their minds up about this a long time ago ... no amount of evidence would matter. It is blackmail .. give us the indictment we want or there will be violence, then give us the verdict we want or their will be violence.
 
Liek I said "Everyone made their minds up about this a long time ago ... no amount of evidence would matter."
 
That's the problem. The trial was supposed to be a rational, legal way to deal with this, but there was a lynch mob outside that had already made up its mind and threatened to burn the place down if the judgement did not agree with what they thought. That's blackmail. Welcome to the jungle.
 
In this case,

"
In St Louis County, grand juries are composed of 12 citizens. The jury's function is to make a "preliminary decision about a criminal charge: whether or not probable cause exists that a crime has been committed and that the accused committed it."

The Ferguson grand jury is composed of seven men and five women. Nine are white and three are black. They vary by age, socioeconomic status and live in various parts of St. Louis County."
 
Perun said:
That's the problem. The trial was supposed to be a rational, legal way to deal with this, but there was a lynch mob outside that had already made up its mind and threatened to burn the place down if the judgement did not agree with what they thought. That's blackmail. Welcome to the jungle.
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Thank you
 
The jungle is a consequence of the real issue: Race, law enforcement and the interaction of the two.

It's a serious debate. This cased is not closed.

Federal investigations

So what happens next?

The U.S. Justice Department is conducting two civil rights investigations in the case: one into whether Wilson violated Brown's civil rights, and another into the police department's overall track record with minorities.
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One good thing to come out of all of this is an increase in police wearing cameras and recording their interactions with citizens. After a long battle with the unions, a local police department (Ft. Worth) finally pushed that through.

Several benefits to that

1) If a cop is doing something bad, you have it on camera and he can be dispatched quickly
2) it acts as a deterrent to bad behavior
3) Disproves many bogus claims against police that people have used as leverage in their own cases or to try to make a quick buck from the taxpayers.
 
Forostar said:
The jungle is a consequence of the real issue: Race, law enforcement and the interaction of the two.
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This is true, and I never denied it. I simply wanted to point out that the situation is so bad that you can't point out good and bad, and that the "victim" side is contributing to it.
 
Perun said:
This is true, and I never denied it. I simply wanted to point out that the situation is so bad that you can't point out good and bad, and that the "victim" side is contributing to it.
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The actual victims here are the shop owners (and the people who work in those stores) who have had their stores looted and/or burned twice now. I would not blame them for boarding up for good and moving elsewhere
 
I find that a disgraceful thing to say bearfan.

The killed man was not a victim? The parents who lost their child are no real victims?

The violence doesn't make that side look better indeed. But I hope it won't be an excuse for not trying to understand what is really going on there.

I really have trouble with (no matter what the law says: look, there have been more unhealthy things done in the name of the law, in various countries) shooting an unarmed on the street, and getting away with it. No charge, nothing.
 
Unless you consider that Brown attacked the cop as the cop said and the physical evidence backed up the cops story, which 12 citizens who poured over every bit of evidence believed. There is such a thing as self defense.

But the mobs really do not seem concerned with what actually happened here, it was an excuse to riot and loot.
 
I think you are strongly in denial when you say that people are not concerned with what actually happened. it is exactly the opposite. People are really pissed off. They don't just want to loot.

And I thought a video made clear that Wilson was not wounded.
 
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