Concentration Camps In North Korea

Night Prowler

Night Prowler

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'Hell on earth': Detailed satellite photos show death camps North Korea still deny even exist

More than 200,000 men, women and children are held in the camps.
Many are hidden in mountains and valleys.
South Korean government sending religious leaders on sortie to North Korea tomorrow and could meet Kim Jong-Il.
People are taken from the streets or their homes and imprisoned for general 'political crimes' as well as involvement in the arts.

The North Korean government may deny their existence, but photos taken from space have revealed in unprecedented detail the concentration camps that are used imprison more than 200,000 citizens. Men, women and children are forced to work seven days a week as slaves and eat 'rats, frogs, snakes, insects' and even faeces to battle starvation in the camps. Previously there have been blurred images taken by satellite but new detailed pictures from South Korea's Unification Ministry allow a closer look at the sites - and also prove they have grown. Experts say the tens of thousands of prisoners at the camps are often taken from their homes or in the street for supposed 'political crimes' rather than actual misdemeanours.

Half of all the inmates will die of starvation or malnutrition with others dying because of fatal diseases that thrive in the squalid conditions. This is if they are not killed by torture, firing squad, or a public stoning by Kim Jong-Il's violent guards, former prisoners say. One of the photos shows the Yodok camp, which holds an estimated 50,000 North Korean prisoners and is hidden in the mountains around 70 miles from the capital Pyongyang.

Kang was only nine years old when he and his family were sent there for political crimes.
'We had no food. We eat anything we could get our hands on -- rats, snakes, frogs, insects,' he told CBN news. 'We just had to find a way to survive.'
'Even though it happened a long time ago when I look at the satellite pictures I can still remember everything I saw and endured,' he said.
'The camp definitely looks bigger. For example, new buildings for prison guards weren't there before. I can only assume that means there are more prisoners being held and therefore more security is needed.'
Kang spent 10 years in Yodok before escaping to China in 1992 and wrote about his experiences in the book The Aquariums of Pyongyang.

It is believed he is the first prisoner to reveal to the world the existence of Yodok.
'The thing I remember the most about in the camp is how the prison guards would kill people for no reason. I witnessed many people being executed,' he said.
Amnesty International has compared the satellite images to those taken 10 years ago and confirms they are growing in size and branded them 'hellish'.
'The outside world certainly doesn't know what's going on and very little from the inside comes out,' Sam Zarifi, from Amnesty International said last month.

'The very little that has come out paints a very disturbing picture.'
Scott Edwards, director of the science and human rights program at Amnesty International added: 'The fact that we would have to rely on satellite imagery just to dispel the government's assertion that these camps don't exist is testament really to the scale of the human travesty that might be going on inside.' The news came as it was revealed the South Korean government will send a group of religious leaders and representatives to visit North Korea tomorrow on a peace mission. The Unification Ministry says delegates from the Korean Conference on Religion and Peace will leave for Pyongyang on Wednesday, where they will discuss peace and human rights issues. It is also understood they could meet with North Korean leader Kim Jong-il.

Satellite photos: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... z1YaaHtMZ6

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So everyone knows about this but no one does anything. What can be done to stop this horror?
 
That whole country is one big camp if you ask me. North Korea is the anus of Communism. A lot of shit still comes out in the most ferocious form out there.

But I guess indeed that the people on these sites suffer way more than "free" people.

Probably not much will be done about it.
 
Communism isn't a word harsh enough to describe the state in which NK is.

I can't really blame any country for not trying to help people in NK - as far as I know, NK has lots of nuclear weapons and about 10 million soldiers. Doing something against them could, without doubt, cause WWIII. But something has to be done, and I hope that these negotiations with Kim Jong-il show some results.
 
You should all stop using the word "Communism". I don't care if they have a "communist" leader, a "communist" party and all the red stars of this world, NK is an autocracy like most of those so-called "communist" countries. Would you use word "democracy" to describe those fine "democratic" African countries, that have "democratic elected" leaders? No you wouldn't. So stop with double standards.

Rant off. Those buildings on those pictures could be anything. Having said that, the chance of terrible brutal country, like NK, not having death camps is 0%.
And I really don't know what can be done with NK. Military action - hardly. There are some very, very brainwashed people over there. You'd actually have serious resistance. We don't know anything about their power structure; would assassination of their leader(s) do any good, is there any sane rogue group in the country that can be trusted enough to really make things better afterwards? You just can't go there, take down Kimmy's regime by arms, and then run a general election. Someone needs to remain an autocrat for some amount of time, someone that'll stop massive killings, allow opposition and take their military budget right into food production. And invest everything in Korean unification talks, step by step.

So my vote goes for quazi-covert operation, initiated by any combination of Russian, Chinese, Japanese, and South Korean resources; United States and NATO should fuck off from this issue because their methods are backed by private interests and they have a really good fail record. The problematic part is finding someone to replace Kimmy.

On the other hand, I know one country that has a death camp right on someone else's island, and nobody seems to give a shit. Go figure.
 
Then you should brush up your Communist theory and point me where it reads oppression, killings, injustice and autocracy. Or you missed my point.
 
It has just worked out that every country that has called itself Comminist has worked out that way ...


By that, you cannot say the US is Capitalist, because it does not fully match what Adam Smith proposed, etc.   
 
I'm with Zare. Communism is a label that was never properly applied. The real label is dictatorship.

But if you want to be precise, North Korea is a Stalinist state, the USA is a republic, Canada is a constitutional monarchy, etc. Communism? No. There's never been a real communist state. Perhaps the difference is Communist vs. communist, eh?
 
Night Prowler said:
I can't really blame any country for not trying to help people in NK - as far as I know, NK has lots of nuclear weapons and about 10 million soldiers. Doing something against them could, without doubt, cause WWIII.
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Unless China wants to protect North Korea, North Korea is not a threat to anyone.  After all, an army of 10 million is useless if that army is not well equipped or fed - kind of like how Saddam Hussein had the world's 3rd or 4th largest army at one time.

But yeah, it really depends on whether China thinks it's more of a benefit to ally with North Korea (which they have historically done), or side with the Capitalist-loving Western world (which is becoming more and more likely).
 
Communism? North Korea? Nothing to do with each other? Sure guys, sure.
And Belgium was the country that delivered the first man on the moon, already in 1933.

Everyone can have their own funny ideas about the country in question but last time I checked NK's history I was aware that it was a Communist dictatorship.

Even if some people will say the country isn't a communist state anymore (the country transformed into a military dictatorship) they can't deny what has happened out there and what shit still comes out.

North Korea is the anus of Communism
A Communist state is the anus of Communism
A Stalinist state is the anus of Communism
A Communist dictatorship is the anus of Communism
The military dictatorship in North Korea is the anus of Communism

anus of = bad result/consequence of

Currently, probably the most stinky anus of the ideology some people don't want to associate with red star dictatorship.

Zare said:
On the other hand, I know one country that has a death camp right on someone else's island, and nobody seems to give a shit. Go figure.
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I do not mind discussing that subject. You know I have had my share in mentioning wrongdoings in USA.
People can criticize my country as well. Go ahead, I might even agree.

MaidenCanada said:
North Korea is not a threat to anyone.
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North Korea is a threat to their own people.
 
Calling yourself something and doing complete opposite thing doesn't make you that something.

Currently, probably the most stinky anus of the ideology some people don't want to associate with red star dictatorship.
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It is a dictatorship. It has a red star stamped on it. However, it's not what communism is supposed to be. Theory and implementation are two different things. NK is autocratic, Soviets were imperialistic, etc.
To be more precise, each system can be split onto it's economic and social component. Communism is an economic system. It would ideally work with liberal democracy as social component. Although every "communist" state employed elements of communist theory onto it's economy, they usually used old-fashion dictatorship as social system. Do what the king tells you to do. But never mind, this is going way off topic...

North Korea is a threat to their own people.
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Agreed. Something must be done, but what?

I do not mind discussing that subject. You know I have had my share in mentioning wrongdoings in USA.
People can criticize my country as well. Go ahead, I might even agree.
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Of course.
 
Forostar said:
Communism? North Korea? Nothing to do with each other? Sure guys, sure.
And Belgium was the country that delivered the first man on the moon, already in 1933.

Everyone can have their own funny ideas about the country in question but last time I checked NK's history I was aware that it was a Communist dictatorship.
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Indeed, North Korea also calls itself the Democratic People's Republic of Korea. So by the logic displayed here, North Korea should also be called a democracy.
 
I agree with Perun. Labels are labels; actions are what counts. Nationalization of industry doesn't a communist country make - and we've tossed the word communism (and socialism) around too much as a political tool. Kim Jong Il is an autocrat, a tyrant, and a dictator, and he runs an tyrannically autocratic dictatorship.
 
Real Communism couldn't exist. Because it collides with human nature, eg. all the negative aspects of it; greed, hunger for power and so on. Actually "communist" chairmen proved that themselves. They knew that some people are far too greedy and lack human values, so they decided to impose rules upon them and limit their behavior. And then they became power-hungry themselves. That's why I just love democracy. It's the system that ensures that people will be ruled like they deserve. Current Croatian system sucks because majority of the people are stupid, backward, under-developed cavemen, so be it. They just don't deserve better. When majority of us starts acting like humans, not caring too much about material, and seeking  and ways to improve ourselves, etc, Communism would just happen without any revolution and without a drop of blood.

I'm not saying that people of NK don't deserve better; it's not tied to on-topic story, just a thought about the off-topic stuff. Now on-topic : doesn't anyone here have an opinion on how the World should help those poor DPRK citizens?
 
Zare said:
doesn't anyone here have an opinion on how the World should help those poor DPRK citizens?
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I really don't know. Sanctions won't have a chance of working because that'll only mean the population of North Korea won't get anything to eat at all anymore. There's nothing you can take from them anymore. A military intervention is too big a risk - nobody knows how strong the North Korean military really is. Maybe it'll fall apart with the next wind blow, maybe they'll fight till the last man and ensure all of Korea goes down with them. Perhaps a limited military operation could work, as in commandos land on the spot of the camps, liberate the people and fly them to safety. Not a guarantee that will put an end to this, but it'll show the North Korean leadership that they're being watched. You could always ask China for help. They're the only ones North Korea will listen to, and I guess the Chinese will always welcome a reputation boost.
 
Even China isn't sure how far they can push the DPKR on these issues. Their approach has always been to quietly push them away from conflict with the south, but Kim has done a great job tightening his reigns over the last 25 years. It's actually incredible at the extent of his lunacy.

I almost think the only way to help North Korea would be to have Kim assassinated. The power vacuum would likely bring to light a lot of failures he's made, and could easily lead to more openness with the North. And it could lead to a bloody civil war that the country can't afford.
 
LooseCannon said:
Even China isn't sure how far they can push the DPKR on these issues. Their approach has always been to quietly push them away from conflict with the south, but Kim has done a great job tightening his reigns over the last 25 years. It's actually incredible at the extent of his lunacy.
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That's the thing. In a recent crisis, journalists would describe China as "the closest thing North Korea has to an ally" - which can mean anything and nothing. China has been smiling to North Korea only so they won't go rabid and kick-start a major war in the region. In fact, they dread Kim and his friends as much as anyone does. The fact that North Korea has nuclear arms, or whatever they consider to be such, is proof that Beijing has very little control over them. I don't think there is anything the Chinese want less than a nuclear North Korea, because that would mean Japan and South Korea will join the club. Luckily enough, nobody takes North Korea's ambitions seriously, and their tests actually triggered reactions such as, "if that's all they can come up with by dedicating all their ressources to it, we have nothing to worry about".

I almost think the only way to help North Korea would be to have Kim assassinated. The power vacuum would likely bring to light a lot of failures he's made, and could easily lead to more openness with the North. And it could lead to a bloody civil war that the country can't afford.
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A very big risk, if you ask me. If it was possible to assassinate Kim, there are many different outcomes, all of which are speculation and equally likely. There might be a power vacuum that could either lead to the disintegration of the state, or to a civil war, or to something else. But the military could have things so much in their grip that they will prevent a power vacuum from happening. They could also just put Kim's son on the throne for show... or Kim's son is actually powerful enough to take control himself. Or Kim is just a puppet. Or he's actually dead and they're using a doppelganger. Or he never existed. Really, anything is possible.
 
The comparison in the standard of living from North to South Korea is staggering.  I think the South has tried to improve the lot of the North, but most of those efforts have been pretty much blackmail (send us aid and we will open a reunification center and exchange just to close it a year later, etc).  It is hard to tell how much genuine support Kim has, but the South should be ready to move when he dies to support any kind of moderate who vies for power.
 
I don't think that Kim's death could change anything, cause his son will succeed him. One man can't control the whole country without having other people that support him and his views. Which means that the only thing that could change things for the better is elimination of Kim and other people in charge of army, police etc. Still, it's very risky doing anything against NK, cause, as I said, they possess nuclear weapons. Kim is an insane person, and nothing could stop him from, for example, launching a nuclear missile at, for example, South Korea if they try to kill him.
 
LooseCannon said:
I agree with Perun. Labels are labels; actions are what counts. Nationalization of industry doesn't a communist country make - and we've tossed the word communism (and socialism) around too much as a political tool. Kim Jong Il is an autocrat, a tyrant, and a dictator, and he runs an tyrannically autocratic dictatorship.
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The actions were the same as in a couple of other countries under the influence of the USSR.
The USSR wasn't a banana republic. It wasn't ruled by druids, neither was it ruled by medicine men.

It was ruled by the Communist party.

The difference between North Korea and most Eastern European countries is that these countries don't rule their country in the same way anymore as in Cold War times (when the USSR was dominant). North Korea keeps on the red star cloths and keeps on ruling their nation the way the USSR did.
 
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