Dream Theater

Imo it isn’t that surprising and I have been expecting this ever since Portnoy played on Petrucci’s last solo album. In fact, I said this back in August on the Dream Theater forum:

We've seen this sort of thing time and time again in Rock history. Once a beloved former member starts making special appearances with the band, a full reunion often becomes inevitable. Seeing MP gradually appear with the band members more often, attend Dream Theater concerts, and participate in side projects makes me feel like things are eventually going to head in that direction. Even MP's involvement with the Lost Not Forgotten series is a tell, being in a position where he's able to participate on the business side of DT again is not something that would've been imaginable a decade ago.
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It makes sense for both artists. Dream Theater has been in a rut the last few years. Portnoy also hasn’t really been participating in any interesting projects recently either. While I don’t think bringing Portnoy back is going to solve their problems, it’s the right move and will hopefully give the band a little jolt to try harder on the next album/tour.

It also seems obvious from the press release that the band is starting to think about their legacy now. Maybe they only have a few albums left in them and want to retire with Portnoy in the band, again it’s the right thing to do.

I think there are a few logistical questions that still remain and have kept me from being more bullish on a Portnoy reunion. I’m sure they worked this all out before Portnoy was formerly brought back:

1: What level of creative control is Portnoy going to have? When he was originally in the band he was in charge of album artwork, stage design, setlists, etc. It didn’t seem like anyone in Dream Theater really enjoyed doing that work so they may be happy to offload that on Portnoy again. At the same time, Petrucci ran the band very differently, in many ways opposite Portnoy. I’m thinking everything from static setlists to backing track to the band’s nonexistent social media presence. How much of a say is Portnoy going to get on these things and will Petrucci go back on how he has managed the band the last decade? I’m really curious about what the politics within the band are going to look like here.

2: Mangini is a technically better drummer than Portnoy. I’m really curious how they handle the Mangini era live. They should keep playing that material, but I wonder if Portnoy is capable of some of those parts. Maybe he rearranges stuff. On the other hand, lately it seems like the band isn’t interested in playing new songs after the tour for that album. Kinda like Maiden. So it might be a nonissue.

3: Will they bring back rotating setlists?
 
Mosh said:
1: What level of creative control is Portnoy going to have? When he was originally in the band he was in charge of album artwork, stage design, setlists, etc. It didn’t seem like anyone in Dream Theater really enjoyed doing that work so they may be happy to offload that on Portnoy again. At the same time, Petrucci ran the band very differently, in many ways opposite Portnoy. I’m thinking everything from static setlists to backing track to the band’s nonexistent social media presence. How much of a say is Portnoy going to get on these things and will Petrucci go back on how he has managed the band the last decade? I’m really curious about what the politics within the band are going to look like here.
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My guess is that his rejoining will see some bit of relinquishing control to Petrucci in terms of overall band mechanics. I could see Portnoy taking over stage design, album artwork, and social media again, but I bet Petrucci stays in charge of the majority of the setlist.
Mosh said:
2: Mangini is a technically better drummer than Portnoy. I’m really curious how they handle the Mangini era live. They should keep playing that material, but I wonder if Portnoy is capable of some of those parts. Maybe he rearranges stuff. On the other hand, lately it seems like the band isn’t interested in playing new songs after the tour for that album. Kinda like Maiden. So it might be a nonissue.
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It'd be a real shame if they abandon those songs. I can't see them doing that, especially after making such a big deal in this press release about their recent GRAMMY win. Also, their newer songs are far easier for LaBrie to sing.
Mosh said:
3: Will they bring back rotating setlists?
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I'd be shocked. Maybe a couple rotating songs to give the illusion of changing set lists, but that's it. No way that LaBrie is gonna go back to singing different songs every night.
 
I think you’re right on all counts. The pool of Mangini songs will undoubtedly narrow though, probably mostly songs that have previously been played live and were released as singles:

On the Backs of Angels
Breaking All Illusions (this one gets played a lot already)
Our New World
Untethered Angel
Paralyzed
The Alien

I can't really think of anything off DT12 that obviously stands out. I would love to be wrong, but it already felt like the band was ignoring a lot of their newer material. On the other hand, maybe Portnoy's self proclaimed "OCD" tendencies will drive him to want to make sure all unplayed songs from Mangini albums get played live eventually. On that note, The Best of Times is probably a lock for the next tour.
 
Mosh said:
Portnoy also hasn’t really been participating in any interesting projects recently either.
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Hate to say this, but although he peaked in the 00s, Morse's output with Portnoy has been more prolific and more consisent than DT's, in the interim. IMHO.
I wonder if they'll collaborate further.
 
Yax said:
I love the self-titled. Enemy Inside, Bigger Picture, Looking Glass, Enigma Machine… Solid album.
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I do too, it's easily my favorite of the Mangini albums and better than a few of the Portnoy albums.

But when was the last time they played anything from it live? Nothing from the original tour has been brought back since and it seems like they threw in Behind the Veil and The Bigger Picture later to check them off the list.
 
JudasMyGuide said:
Hate to say this, but although he peaked in the 00s, Morse's output with Portnoy has been more prolific and more consisent than DT's, in the interim. IMHO.
I wonder if they'll collaborate further.
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Well Portnoy has been Morse's go to since Testimony, when he was still in Dream Theater, so I imagine it won't change that much. The Morse thing is interesting though and I think the way things have gone on that side recently has actually made this good timing for Portnoy as well as Dream Theater.

Transatlantic seems finished, not that it was a super active project anyway. Similarly, Flying Colors has stuff on the calendar but it seems like that projected has fizzled a little too (also I think some members of the band are dealing with personal/health issues).

As for Neal Morse's solo work, it seems like he has been more open to using other drummers live and in studio, maybe due to Portnoy just not always being available. Also, he's slowing down quite a bit and is getting older. I wouldn't be surprised if he pivots into less touring and more one off live performances or trying to do larger scale productions for some of his rock opera type of work.

It's also worth keeping in mind that even when Portnoy was in the band originally, Dream Theater has never been an overactive touring act. They've all had families the entire time (including Portnoy) and have limited their touring activities compared to what other bands do. This allowed Portnoy to participate in various side projects while in Dream Theater and I imagine it will continue to be the case. Plenty of time for Portnoy to still make music with Morse.
 
I'm halfway there myself - on one hand, the murky sound felt rather unpleasant after the much more agreeable ADTOE (still my favourite album with Mangini and ranking very high overall) and especially the middle of the record suffered from the "cut off" syndrome - songs that felt like they should have been longer, having disproportionate intro/build-up and then feeling somewhat unfinished to "save time". Also, it took me quite long to get into Illumination Theory - it's still not my favourite epic and at least one of the middle songs (IIRC Reason) always felt like a hot mess, akin to what Seventh Wonder were doing at the time - jumbled ideas put together without any resemblance of coherence - the ideas themselves being good enough so the song is good after all, but still.

I remember I had similar feelings to D/T later, that the album was strangely... "underbaked". Less substantial.

That said, I really loved most of the tracks on their own, The Enemy Inside is an underrated radio gem, The Looking Glass with its Limelight adoration used to be one of my favourite DT tracks and many moments in the songs in the middle are among my favourite of the era (the instrumental part of Veil is fire); it's just as a whole it was a bit of a disappointment after the light, breezy, beautiful Turn.
 
Wow, this is something I never imagined. With DT being my favorite band along with Maiden and Rush, this is a real shocker. Never thought this would happen since LaBrie seemed more happy with Mangini. But on the other hand there have been pictures with Portnoy meeting the old members, maybe they've putten their grudges behind them and Portnoy has matured a bit.

Also makes you wonder if Mangini was kicked out or if he felt as leaving.
 
Fucken hard to believe, when I saw the post on FB hours ago. I always expected Slash to go back to GNR but this is really a surprise. Really hoping for the new album to have that "rib eye juice" that is present in early works.

Another thing, I would really love to know how the whole situation was communicated to Mangini.
Was he told in the beginning, that he is probably a temporary replacement?
Did he believe that he was in the band for good?
Did the rest of the band discuss this without MM and then just informed him?
Or did MM always think that DT is with MP and was supportive of his comeback?

Personally it feels to me like there is so much space for hard feelings, I really really hope it was communicated and decided in a way that would impact MM the least. He is genuinely an amazing dude and I don't think I know a drummer who can compete with him, technically.
 
I'm not a Dream Theater fan but I Have been seeing blabbermouth and other metal news channels all these years and this situation has been forced to happened years ago. All the musicians playing with Portnoy and saying that they were friends playing together again but the place of Mangini was the drummer of the band and they were very happy with him… blablabla…Well, it's very sad for Mangini who gained the place of Portnoy when he left and that he has been contributed a lot for the band. I'm dissapointed just for the hypocrisy of these guys that they played at the back of Mangini. On the other hand I think the band is looking for more repercussion and to be back again with Portnoy allow them to stay all the time in the Metal news saying that they're doing the best metal album in decades or whatever…

Never liked Portnoy, always trying to be the next Neil Peart, making supergroups for just one album, touring with this band , Now I want to play with these guys, hey come on let's make a new supergroup … inconsistent albums. one year or so I saw a video when he was showing his room full of vynils and saying…oh I've got this, and this and this…all unplayed because they were sealed…Come on man! I can't stand him to be honest. But hey it's just my opinion.
 
The_7th_one said:
I'm dissapointed just for the hypocrisy of these guys that they played at the back of Mangini.
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Yep, I am a fan of both old and new music, old of course more. I juste really really hope it was all done with good intentions and vibes, not to leave MM in a bad place.
The_7th_one said:
Never liked Portnoy, always trying to be the next Neil Peart, making supergroups for just one album, touring with this band ,
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Peart and Rush are incredible inspirations and I don't see anything wrong here. Portnoy will never be Peart, vice versa, but it is amazing to have both on our planet. The spaces inbetween, leave room, for you and I to grow.
 
Mike Mangini was almost certainly fired. I imagine it played out similarly to the Blaze situation in that all the pieces for a reunion were put into place and then Mangini was informed when everything was finalized. This was probably in the works for awhile and I wouldn't be surprised if LTE was a bit of a test run. On the other hand, LTE signed a 2 album deal when that project was inactive because Portnoy/Rudess/Petrucci were already a writing partnership in Dream Theater. Unless the 2nd album has been made already, it seems kinda redundant at this point.

It's also entirely possible this was a mutual decision to some degree. Ultimately I'm sure the choice was not Mangini's, but I have also long wondered how long he wants to be a touring musician. It also seems like Dream Theater has not been as much of a creative outlet as he expected and he has expressed not being happy with his drum sounds on record.

I also think that Mangini must have known to some degree that a reunion was always a possibility. Petrucci and LaBrie were pretty forceful in interviews through his time in the band that they intended Mangini to be the permanent drummer, but that never felt authentic to me. If they presented the same posture privately with Mangini, that's probably disingenuous on their part. Overall though I don't see the problem, Portnoy helped start the band and he should be in the band if everybody else wants him in the group. Also the "next Peart" thing was created by rock media and applied to Portnoy, not his fault that he got that label (and he has seemed really uncomfortable with it in interviews).

One last thought. The period between 2011 and 2014 was an exciting time to be a Dream Theater fan. They were clearly out to prove themselves again and felt much more creative and motivated than the last few years with Portnoy. ADTOE and DT12 were really solid albums and they sounded fantastic live. They've declined significantly since then, I think The Astonishing bombing really bummed out Petrucci and had a big effect on the way they've handled themselves since. I hope that this lineup change lights a fire under them again and gives the band a little bit of a lift in the last stage of their career.
 
I think Mike only has 2 active projects now that don't feature any of DT guys... Winery Dogs and NMB. So, I don't see a big scheduling problem, as he was in more projects before.
 
Mosh said:
Imo it isn’t that surprising and I have been expecting this ever since Portnoy played on Petrucci’s last solo album. In fact, I said this back in August on the Dream Theater forum
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Same here, I saw it all coming the last few years. In fact I’m surprised it took so long.

First, LTE reunited, and Mike started talking to Jordan and John. Sons of apollo dried up, The winery dogs and Transatlantic was never a full time thing, and the pandemic hit. DT started the process of doing a new album and Mike got bored by not being able to tour, and started talking to his old mates again, this time also playing on John’s solo album. DT probably wanted to finish touring their new album first, even if touring cost extremely much nowadays. And then Mike Mangini record a solo album, they ask Portnoy to join them so they can get better paid from promoters, and do their new legacy theme. Full circle.

Good for them I think. I think Dream theater did well with Mangini, but hopefully the get back this little x factor with Portnoy back, and record a new album next year
 
naikon said:
Also makes you wonder if Mangini was kicked out or if he felt as leaving.
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Pretty sure he knew it was bound to happend at some point. He’s a grown man. When you replace a legendary member in a legendary band, you know they can replace you with him/her at any time they are talking again and promoters give the band offers they can’t refuse
 
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